Big deal about amount of weight?

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You can call at dive at any time and for any reason: no questions asked and no repercussions. It's still warm here in the Keys! :D :D :D The water's prettier too.

Maybe no repercussions, normally! But, I'm thinking that not getting a sign-off on the 4 OW dives I need in order to get my OW cert card is a potential repercussion here. And one that I don't want to deal with. :) I want to get my card, so I can go to the Caribbean on my trip in Dec and just dive, without having to demonstrate skills, etc..
 
Stuart-

Congratulations!! Your instructor thinks its awesome because he just saw $200 bucks worth of "Peak Performance Bouyancy" class fly by lol...seriously...good on ya!! Its awesome cause MOST (99%) O/W students your size in a 3/2 would start with close to 20#'s...

Either your the second coming of Jacques Cousteau or INCREDIBLY relaxed under water...either way...revel in it...your way ahead of most new divers.

Seriously...congratulations...unless your as dense as unobtainium...your doing great!!

Bubs
 
It IS awesome that you are using so little weight . . . because it means that you are not having serious problems with your descents, and it also means your instructors haven't succumbed to the temptation to overweight their students to plant them on the bottom of the pool (something which is quite common).

As far as going onto your face goes, it's simple physics. If you are vertical at the surface, some things, like your BC bladder and your wetsuit, are pushing you up. Other things, like your full tank and your weights, are pulling you down. If where those different things are is not arranged properly, you will have a tendency to move away from the floating things and toward the sinking things . . . so if you have a full back-inflate air bladder behind you, and your weights in integrated weight pockets on the front of the BC, you will tend to tip forward. You can ameliorate that by moving weights to the back (and although some jacket BCs have trim pockets in back, the ones your shop carries may not), using a more negative (steel) tank, or distributing the lift, which is what a jacket (wraparound air bladder) BC does.

However, all of this really depends on the BC being sufficiently attached to you that it can't ride up. If it does, the angle of action of the flotation bladder will change, tending to push you forward. One of the advantages to the harnesses used with backplates is a crotch strap, which prevents this. Few other BCs have them. If you don't have a crotch strap, you really need to ensure that the BC you are using fits you correctly and is really snugged down around your body, so it can't move up at the surface.
 
Either your the second coming of Jacques Cousteau or INCREDIBLY relaxed under water...either way...revel in it...your way ahead of most new divers.


LOL! I'll go with "relaxed". :) I didn't mention, on the second morning, just before we all jumped in to do our "don the scuba unit while in the water" exercise, an instructor came by and squirted a big blob of anti-fog in my mask. For snorkeling, I've always just used spit, but since they were offering, I held my mask out and let them put it in. I rubbed it around then waited until just before I got in the pool to do a quick dunk to rinse it out. I have a mustache, so my mask was letting water in constantly and I was having to clear my mask often. So, I jump in with my mask on and almost immediately needed to clear my mask. I quickly learned that blowing out my nose and having water in my mask splash into my eyes sucks a lot more when there's anti-fog in that water! I had anti-fog in my eyes and up my nose a little bit. It does sting!

With all that going on, I then got to put on my never-before-worn BC/scuba unit and figure out how the straps worked, etc.. All while floating in the deep end of the pool. And having to pause periodically to clear my mask again (each time getting a new splash of anti-fog in my eyes). I did eventually get slightly testy with my g/f, who was hanging on the pool wall near me. But that was only after I had gotten my BC situated and was floating there with my mask off, trying to wipe the water/anti-fog out of my eyes and coughing/sputtering a bit from the anti-fog I swallowed after it went up my nose - and she was asking me questions like "what's wrong" and "are you all right" at the same time the instructor was trying to talk to me. I finally put my hand up to her and said "let the instructor handle it" - admittedly, in a bit of a testy tone of voice.

I dealt with all that and got myself taken care of, without wigging out, swimming over to the pool wall to hang on it, getting out, or having to ask for help. So, yeah, I think, normally, I was pretty relaxed in the water. No Jacques Cousteau. Just not the type to get wound up without a reason. :D I have many years experience racing motorcycles. When you're doing 100+ MPH, dragging one knee on the ground, and the back tire is sliding just a little, and then some jackwagon behind you runs into the back of you and bumps your rear end out another few inches, and you still don't freak out, jumping in a pool with an air source that you can breathe off of, no matter what else you have to screw with, just doesn't seem like much of a cause for alarm. LOL

---------- Post added October 27th, 2014 at 04:52 PM ----------

It IS awesome that you are using so little weight . . . because it means that you are not having serious problems with your descents, and it also means your instructors haven't succumbed to the temptation to overweight their students to plant them on the bottom of the pool (something which is quite common).

As far as going onto your face goes, it's simple physics. If you are vertical at the surface, some things, like your BC bladder and your wetsuit, are pushing you up. Other things, like your full tank and your weights, are pulling you down. If where those different things are is not arranged properly, you will have a tendency to move away from the floating things and toward the sinking things . . . so if you have a full back-inflate air bladder behind you, and your weights in integrated weight pockets on the front of the BC, you will tend to tip forward. You can ameliorate that by moving weights to the back (and although some jacket BCs have trim pockets in back, the ones your shop carries may not), using a more negative (steel) tank, or distributing the lift, which is what a jacket (wraparound air bladder) BC does.

However, all of this really depends on the BC being sufficiently attached to you that it can't ride up. If it does, the angle of action of the flotation bladder will change, tending to push you forward. One of the advantages to the harnesses used with backplates is a crotch strap, which prevents this. Few other BCs have them. If you don't have a crotch strap, you really need to ensure that the BC you are using fits you correctly and is really snugged down around your body, so it can't move up at the surface.


Honestly, if an instructor would have just said "actually, what you have is really how you SHOULD be setup" that would have made it a LOT better for me. Instead, everyone else was in jacket BCs and floating vertically with no effort, and I was left feeling like I should be floating the same way and, because I wasn't, I needed to get my rig "fixed".
 
This was an issue for me when I first started diving, so I know how frustrating it is. In my case, it was because I was seriously over-weighted, so it doesn't sound like I have much to offer you.

To me, it sounds like switching gear was counter-productive since it means you changed around a lot of things. I would have tried slowly moving weight around first to see if you could find a good balancing point that worked underwater and on the surface.
 
With my first BCD, there was nowhere/no way to move weight around. At least, as far as I know. Although I don't know why they didn't just hang trim weight pouches on the tank band - 'cause that's exactly what they did on the BC I ended up using on Sun.

Anyway... I wasn't really trying to solve my weighting/flipping forward issue with this thread. I really just wanted to understand why everyone thought it was so great that I only needed 8 - 10 # of weight. The flipping forward thing was just background info to explain why I had 2 different BCDs and so many conversations with the instructors about my weight.
 
I'm in the process of getting my OW cert. I had all the confined water work over this past weekend in a local pool.

I am 6' 1", 230 #. I was wearing a 3/2 full suit with the typical rec-style BCD (whatever the shop issued me for the class).

On Sat, I ended up with 8 # of weight in my BC. I could descend. My problem with it was that it was trying to flip me on to my face. The instructors told me I need a "back inflate" BC so that we could put some trim weights in pockets on the back. But, they didn't have any in my size there with them at the pool, so they said they would bring one for me to use on Sun. In the meantime, I just dealt with it.

On Sun, I had a new BC that they had added a couple of trim weight pockets to, by hanging them on the tank band. I started with 4 x 2 # weights - 2 in the 2 front pockets and 2 in the 2 trim weight pockets on the back. There was still a bit of tendency to flip me on my face, when on the surface. Eventually, an instructor added 2 more pounds of weight.

Later on Sat, I was talking to an instructor about my rig trying to flip me on my face and he asked me how much weight I was using. He seemed shocked when I told him 8 # and said that was awesome. Again, on Sun, a different instructor (the one who added my 2#) asked me how much weight I was carrying and I told him now 10 #. He said when I go to the Caribbean and I'm in salt water, I should start with 14 # and that that is awesome that I am using so little weight.

So my question is, why is it "awesome" that I'm 8 or 10 # of weight in fresh water or 14 # in salt water? It seems like whatever it takes for me to achieve the right buoyancy is what it takes. But, the way they talked about it, it was as if there is some skill associated with needing less weight and I was showing excellent "skill" for being a newb. Which is what I don't understand. How is there skill in being a certain overall density?

And while I'm asking questions, why did they tell me I need a "back inflate"? I assume that's referring to a BCD that just has the air bladder on the back, versus a jacket style that also has part of the air bladder wrapping around the diver's sides, towards the front of the body?

It seemed that I needed to add some trim weights on my back. So, why would being a back inflate be a prerequisite for doing that? It seems like any style of BCD could have trim weight pockets on the back. And any that didn't have those could have them added on the tank band.

Thanks in advance for clarifying any of this.

You are NOT awesome and your instructors are dorks.

You need as much lead as you need (as you figured out on your own).

With the epidemic of obesity in this country, you are probably at a reasonable height and weight which is increasingly unusual. Fat people with low muscle mass float (a lot).

As for needing a back inflate and putting lead on your back. More garbage!

You are "flipping turtle" because your lead weight is not distributed properly. It should most likely be primarily on your hips or FORWARD on your hips, so it hangs BELOW you when you lay face down. This will give you a stable configuration in the face down position which is what you want, the exact opposite of flipping on you back.

You want your lead to be below you and the buoyant chamber above, the exact same configuration that a sail boat uses to remain stable in the water.

My advice is to use a weightbelt and keep the lead on your hips and forward and minimize what you put in pockets on your BC. Then you will at least LOOK awesome in the water. :D
 
Congratulations on handling the defog thing!

A couple of years ago, I was privileged enough to do a dive at a local site with one of the amazing gurus of buoyancy and diving, a fellow who used to post a lot here under the rubric of Uncle Pug. About 40 minutes into the dive, he indicated to me and our other buddy that he was having a problem, but we couldn't tell what it was. It looked as though he couldn't clear his mask, but that didn't make any sense. At any rate, although we did not understand it, he ended up closing his eyes and having us help him back to the shore.

Once there, he told us he had used a new defog on his mask, and when the mask leaked a little water, he got the stuff in his eyes. He said it hurt so much he couldn't think and he could not keep his eyes open. This was a man with quite literally THOUSANDS of dives and tons of training.

So good on you for coping with it!
 
A couple of years ago, I was privileged enough to do a dive at a local site with one of the amazing gurus of buoyancy and diving, a fellow who used to post a lot here under the rubric of Uncle Pug. About 40 minutes into the dive, he indicated to me and our other buddy that he was having a problem, but we couldn't tell what it was. It looked as though he couldn't clear his mask, but that didn't make any sense. At any rate, although we did not understand it, he ended up closing his eyes and having us help him back to the shore.

Once there, he told us he had used a new defog on his mask, and when the mask leaked a little water, he got the stuff in his eyes. He said it hurt so much he couldn't think and he could not keep his eyes open. This was a man with quite literally THOUSANDS of dives and tons of training.
This happened to me back in 1969... it was horrible. Good that you were there for UP!
 
Once there, he told us he had used a new defog on his mask, and when the mask leaked a little water, he got the stuff in his eyes. He said it hurt so much he couldn't think and he could not keep his eyes open. This was a man with quite literally THOUSANDS of dives and tons of training.

So good on you for coping with it!

Thanks! And, wow, that would have sucked! You'd think they would test that stuff to make sure it at least wasn't that bad. When I got it in my eyes it stung, but it wasn't mind-numbing stinging. Though, I did use to wear contact lenses for years before I finally got lasik. I suppose my eyes may be less sensitive than others' because of that.
 

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