Biggest Challenge

[oya]

Simple question with a complex answer.

For background, I am asking as an instructor. I am not trying to take a class, not from this or that instructor or agency. I don't need to learn how to use this rebreather or that piece of awesome equipment you bought.

What I'm asking is how instructors challenged you. How did you like being challenged? Or, not... what didn't work and you hated the way you were challenged?

Nor do I care about the level. I don't care that you're advance trimix on the coolest rebreather in the world. Or whether you have all the credentials from the most prestigious agency that ever existed. Bully for you.

If your most challenging class was a rescue class taught by a 20 year old in Thailand specifically because the class sucked... that's what I'm interested in.

What worked, what didn't? What did you like, what didn't you? What challenged you and why did it seem worth overcoming the challenge?

The reason I'm asking: I have a student I am legitimately having a hard time challenging. Because they have had some of the best training on the planet. So sort of attacking them like some Sea-Hunt-style battle, I'm having a hard time coming up with a way to screw with them.

 

[RyanT]

Task loading was my biggest challenge in tech training. Even after having several tech classes under my belt, task loading was one of my biggest challenges. For example, I remember my instructor giving me several tasks to complete (e.g. managing a mask-less diver, while sharing air, and doing gas switches on ascent). He told me, don't forget to continue your ascent/stops on schedule while managing these other tasks. I was "so proud of myself" when I managed the other diver. Then I remembered, "doh, I forgot about ascending on schedule." Task load them.

 

[grantctobin]

The reason I'm asking: I have a student I am legitimately having a hard time challenging. Because they have had some of the best training on the planet. So sort of attacking them like some Sea-Hunt-style battle, I'm having a hard time coming up with a way to screw with them.

I do think at some point, it is hard to invent situations that could ever simultaneously happen in the real world. Short of something like the ol “take the scrubber out of the RB80 and keep kicking against the dock with the loop in your mouth until you can’t take it,” I do think there is a level of competence that is hard to upset. It isn’t super common among tourist divers. Most problems are kind of solvable with the right toolbox.

Pair them with a menace “partner” and force the diver to compensate for the failures of their “partner” while simultaneously task loading the primary diver? Take their fins off for the entirety of the skills including bottle rotation ascent? Force an exceptionally long swim out of a long scooter cave with significant navigational decisions to increase mental stress? Dealing with simultaneous failures of diver and teammate gear while on a blue water ascent with mandatory stops? The ol “only one first stage works and you need two to get out” swap regs underwater trickery? Rescuing and managing a simulated unconscious, but breathing, CCR diver without a hard bottom with significant (simulated) deco obligation?

At the end of the day, if nothing you can think of phases them, they might simply be good, and the next step is inviting them into the discussion and seeing how they operate as a mentor to others.

Ymmv

 

[nadwidny]

I don't understand why? Train them to respond to what they may face. If they find that easy then make them your best buddy going forward.

Creating training scenarios to ridiculous extremes until they fail is just dumb.

 

[lowwall]

What does the student say when asked what he or she finds challenging or feels a need to work on?

Other than that, I'm with @nadwidny. If the student meets all the requirements of the course without breaking a sweat then you've done your job. Celebrate and move on.

FWIW, I'm just a rec diver. But I haven't found anything in my dive courses challenging. Even rescue (probably because I was a lifeguard and WSI so had done a lot of similar training). OK, there was one thing: fin pivots in OW. I couldn't get out of trim enough to keep my feet on the bottom when I inhaled. It was very frustrating and even then I knew it was a stupid exercise.

 

[AnotherDiverHere]

I can think of two instances from personal experience as a student that challenged me.

First: I was taking my AN/DP class with another student in the class. This student had very little to no experience in backmount doubles, trouble with buoyancy and very little situational awareness. As the class progressed it was becoming more difficult as a buddy team. At first, I was reluctant to speak my mind, thinking the problem would fix itself (mistake). About halfway through class, before the actual deco dives, I started to "beat around the bush" to the student saying "we" needed more practice before continuing. He was persistent on continuing forward completely unaware of his skill set. On the last simulated deco dive we did, I had reached a breaking point. During the debrief I had to tell him that I would not continue the course with him and that he needed more practice before continuing. It took me a moment to speak up and at the time I felt bad. Afterwards I felt great. The value I found was that I need to learn and get better about speaking up. Needless to say I thanked the instructor for letting me speak up because I feel its a skill set within itself. (Note) The instructor had no intention of letting the student move forward and was letting the team work itself out. As we all know, the instructor will not be there on your future dives but you will, so speak up.

As grantctobin said, pairing them with a "not so great partner" simulated obviously, could bring some some challenging aspects.

Two: In another class we were practicing lost line drills with a blackout mask. An actual blacked out mask, not a mask cover. During the drill, another group of divers came through as I was searching for the line. I am blind, searching, and was not aware of the other divers. My instructor signaled to the other divers (which should have been absolutely apparent) that I was in the middle of the drill. Needless to say, the other divers did not deviate from their course. As I am searching for the line, I swing my arm and grab another diver, at this point, I hear muffled screams coming though a regulator, also at this point I know I have grabbed on to a diver and let go. After I let go I stay completely still not know what is going on, I get ran into by another diver (found this out on the debrief). Sitting there with no vision, getting bumped around, I start to hear more muffled screams. Lets just say this is when panic started to set in. I learned to dive in a low viz lake and worked in zero viz situations more times than I can count. I feel that I am fairly comfortable in little to no visibility. Obviously this was a very different scenario. After what seemed like an eternity I was able to calm down and continue searching. After what seemed like another eternity, I stopped, grabbed my back up mask and ended the drill. I will say with all honesty that as much as I calmed down I did not completely shake the feeling.

On the debrief, I found out there was a team of four divers, who must have been hyper focused on there route and did not see me. When I grabbed the diver, it caused them to panic, the other divers did not see what was going on and ran into each other, including me. At this point my instructor is trying to push away the other divers before they ran into me, which caused more muffled screams and commotion.

Being blind, unaware of the situation and getting bumped around, definitely caused me to panic. A group of divers panicking in zero visibility, is a scenario I can see happening in real life. Although this was an unplanned situation, I did find value in what could happen in overhead, no viz, confined areas and the reality set in how dangerous these environments can be.

That being said, the class and whole experience was awesome and I look forward to continuing my journey into dark scary places.

 

[Rilelen]

I’m a college professor. When we think about instructional design, our goal isn’t necessarily to challenge students but to reach mastery on X skills or Y content knowledge. Some students find that more challenging than others.

When I get students who find it “easy,” I don’t worry about them not being challenged sufficiently. If they’ve mastered the current level of skills/content, I just “graduate” them up to the next level. You can analyze stats in SPSS? Great, let’s learn syntax rather than drop-down menus. Or move on to doing it in R.

My favorite dive classes have been those that have followed a similar approach. No problem handling the reel? Great, let’s go do it in high flow! Already got the cavern skills required by standards down and we have extra time? Let’s learn some drills from intro.

If they’ve nailed the skills for their current class down, consider teaching “up” a level - just be clear that’s what you’re doing and what their certification actually certifies them to do.

 

[ofg-1]

The reason I'm asking: I have a student I am legitimately having a hard time challenging. Because they have had some of the best training on the planet. So sort of attacking them like some Sea-Hunt-style battle, I'm having a hard time coming up with a way to screw with them.

You don't need a Sea Hunt style battle. A well placed pole spear should do it. Glute shot with a trident head.

Look, I disagree with your premise. Do you know how rare it is to have a person, or persons, show up to any class ready? Why screw with that? Teach them the class standards, and a bit beyond, be thankful that they are not dangerous leaving your class. You don't want them to unlearn all or part of the "best training on the planet".

If you are just looking for entertainment, I can give you some ideas from my old Master Chief. First, give them a 4' buddy rope they have to hold onto. Give one buddy a right fin, the other a left fin. Get them to swim a straight line. A good time will be had by all.

Drop a pair of 95's or 104's on the bottom. Give them a horsecollar BC. Have them swim down and don the
95's and get neutral. That will screw with them.

 

[Dan G]

I teach middle school math and I find that the most effective way to challenge my strongest students is to present them with a problem that requires they combine skills and knowledge in a way they have never done so before. For example, in geometry a common problem is for students to solve for missing measurements on a diagram. They must use various geometry conjectures/rules to find all of the missing angles and other measurements. The most challenging diagrams are the ones that require students to combine different conjectures they have never used together for the same problem. Toss in the need to recognize that algebra skills will help and it gets really fun and interesting. When we learn new things, we often learn them in isolation. Compelling students to combine skills and knowledge in a unique way is great for our most skilled and advanced learners. It's not just task loading. It's task loading with tasks that have not been loaded together before. I will leave it up to the dive instructors here to decide if this can be done safely in a dive course.

When I learn new things and am heavily challenged, I need my instructor to pick their moments for giving me feedback. While using doubles for the first time, I struggled mightily with the backwards kick. My instructor allowed me to just keep trying until I asked for feedback. Had he interrupted me after each failed attempt (there were many), I would have never been able to absorb his feedback, demos, or instruction.

 

[b1gcountry]

The best learning experiences are when you simulate a real world scenario at the limits of a divers abilities.

This happened in basic ow when my instructor simply had us hover over a coral head to look at something tiny.
It happened in my cave class as I was doing an ooa blind exit with someone who was pulling on the line, and when they let go of the line, it slipped out of my hand.

The worst learning experiences were in real life emergencies, or in situations that are designed to make you fail.

The same OW class where my instructor and buddy got so far ahead of me in surge that I couldn't keep up and went ooa for real...training needs to be a safe place where you are allowed to fail, but you also need to take some degree of ultimate responsibility for your students to ensure that in the skill-induced stress, they remain safe even if they have a lapse of SA.

Or a different cave class where my instructor went ooa after exiting JB, and came at me while I was pulling the line through there highest flow, and after I deployed my long hose quickly, he gave the hose a long and strong pull upward before I could unhook it from my can light, which pulled my feet up enough that I had to grasp for a handhold to prevent getting swept out. Mugging a student underwater doesnt really teach them anything other than distrust.

One other lesson I learned is that communication is hard underwater, and your students will get more from the class if they understand what they are doing. During one class, my instructor was shaking my BC around violently. I didn't understand the drill, and it wasn't briefed. I though he was simulating distress, then I thought he was hazing me. It turned out my BC was on kinda crooked and he was trying to get a strap adjusted. It wasn't unreasonable, but in a training situation, it left me confused and unsure of my actions. In a normal dive, with that happening, I would have turned the dive and surfaced. With the explanation afterwards, it made more sense.