BP/W..Where to start?

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From the Halcyon FAQ...

To further determine appropriate lift capacity, it’s important to understand a few other concepts about proper weighting.


Proper weighting requires that a diver be able to maintain a safety or deco stop at the end of a dive and with a nearly empty tank. This balance becomes critical during extended gas-sharing scenarios, when a buddy team might find their cylinder(s) nearly depleted (and extremely buoyant). A simple test can be carried out in a confined, shallow water dive site. Divers should be able to remain neutral at 10 ft (3 m) with only 500 psi (35 bar) in their tank; the wing should be empty or nearly empty. If you can’t maintain neutral buoyancy, adjust weight accordingly. Avoid the common temptation to wear excessive weight. In an over-weighted situation, the diver’s need for buoyancy will increase by whatever amount they are over weighted.

Now that you are certain your weighting is correct, it is a simple matter to calculate your variable buoyancy needs. Your required lift has little to do with the amount of weight you are wearing, but instead is tied to your variable buoyancy. A diver’s variable buoyancy is determined by the weight of the gas in their tank plus the loss of buoyancy from their wetsuit (or neoprene dry suit) due to compression at depth. Divers wearing a trilaminate (shell-type) or crushed neoprene dry suit do not experience significant compression, making this calculation easier. The average ¼ inch (approx. 5 mm) “Farmer John” wetsuit loses about 9 lb. (4 kg) of buoyancy at 100 feet (30 m). Meanwhile, an 80 cf tank is approximately 3 lb. (1.3 kg) negative when full; that tank will be about 3 lb (1.3kg) positive when empty. So, when wearing an Al 80 tank and a ¼ inch (5 mm) “Farmer John” wetsuit, the variation in buoyancy from the start of the dive (at depth with a full tank) to the end of the dive (at 10 ft./3 m with 500 psi/35 bar) will be about 15 lb. (6.8 kg). Divers using such a configuration and weighted to be neutral at the end of the dive could need to add approximately 15 lb (6.8kg) of gas at depth in order to be neutral. Please note there are a range of factors that can affect required buoyancy. Divers should seek appropriate training to ensure they understand these variables.

Given that most divers would prefer to be more than just neutral at the surface, doubling their variable buoyancy requirement is one way to support additional surface floatation. In this case, one might select the Eclipse 30. There are a few other factors that can increase your lift requirements. One is a desire for your BC to float your gear without you in it. It is not necessarily a requirement, but it can be of benefit—particularly for divers that dive from inflatable boats or don their gear in the water. You will determine this lift requirement by adding together the lift needed to float the specific tank you use and how much weight is on the system.

As with any change in one’s diving equipment, it is recommended that all divers make a few dives with their buddy in controlled conditions while establishing how these changes will affect in-water performance. Careful wing selection, together with proper training will help ensure adequate lift capacity while avoiding the excessive drag and instability caused by unnecessarily large or buoyant systems. Poorly chosen systems can be very detrimental to buoyancy and trim control while decreasing efficiency and increasing effort while diving.
 
part of the base premise of "DIR" is the idea of not compromising.

If someone can't afford a doubles and singles wing, and are trying to skimp already then the idea of spending 200+ dollars on gas in a weekend for a dive that may or may not go 'as planned' will seem downright painful. Extended Range diving is an expensive hobby.

(and ...sorry, i gotta say it.... no bungie wings)
 
Scubanon, the OP was asking about gear that would be suitable for a GUE Fundamentals class. GUE divers do not use bungied wings -- they use wings that are properly sized for the lift required, and without bungies.
 
I guess you missed this in the OP:
"I saw one rig Golem makes w/ a wing that has 55lbs of lift that has a build in STA, which I like because I will still do reef dives with single tanks and would prefer if I didn't have to use two separate wings."

The OP could remove the bungies for GUE Fundamentals class and not have 2 separate wings.

In which case they would be diving in a configuration that's efficiency would be severely compromised for not just the class but their diving in general. Also, 55lbs of lift is a bit much for all but the heaviest doubles configurations (think LP104s/LP121s/HP130s) as I found out during my Fundies class using a Halcyon 55lb wing with my HP100 doubles and also AL80 doubles.

The wing is just too wide so the air in it ends up being above the tanks which makes it hard to vent while staying in trim, leading to a "Bungee Diver" who is trying to execute a controlled ascent while being in horizontal trim the whole time. The most I would recommend with doubles that are 7.25" in diameter or less is 45 lbs of lift, leave the bigger wing for bigger tanks.

Peace,
Greg
 
That happens to be in line with my original post were I recommended the OMS 45# bungee for double AL80s. I was saying that it could be used without the bungees for Fundies and it would be usable as a singles wing with the bungees in place.
I noted it would be a compromise but seemed to fill the bill the OP was interested in.

No...it didn't. The OP has posted his question in the DIR forum. He references the Fundies course. That speaks clearly about what information he was seeking (i.e. DIR compliant configurations).

As you are not DIR/GUE/UTD trained, I find it surprising that you would wish to push a point so vehemently on this forum.

Best off taking your bungeed, 45lb, horseshoe, single tank, wings back over to the 'advanced diving' forum, where someone might agree with you... :wink:
 
op,
as a perspective candidate for dir,tech, or cave looking in from the outside the anticipated costs appear to be staggering, they are. If you resist the urge to find a multi purpose wing you will be better off in the end. Contrary to what others will tell you there is allways "the right tool for the job" and everything else compromises in some way.
I eased into the tech pool by setting up a singles rig and streamlining everything. I did prollly around 100 dives in that rig and then moved into doubles. I did prolly 100 dives before realising that 200cu feet of gas for a ndl dive was not worth the impact on my back, roi. Instead of going back to a singles rig for ndl I bought smaller sets of doubles. The point I am trying to make is that where you are going is a "money rabbit hole" and having more than one wing is really only the first step into the rabbit hole.
Eric
 
Scubanon, as DD pointed out, this IS the DIR forum. DIR diving isn't about compromises. One dives a wing which is properly sized for the application -- thus there is no need for any device to compress excess wing. The OP apparently didn't know this, but he has been educated. The subject of the utility (or lack thereof) of bungied wings can be debated endlessly, but elsewhere -- the DIR take on the subject is very clear and pretty well known.
 
Yep....I didn't join this thread earlier because, despite my experience with various wings and configurations, I am not GUE/DIR qualified. There are people on this forum who are qualified and those are the people who should be left to give the advice in this instance.

As for compromises and costs.... GUE is expensive. Diving with the DIR methodology is expensive. Tech diving is expensive. I've wanted to do GUE Fundies and Tech for years, but haven't had the surplus cash to do it yet. It's always good to let someone else benchmark you... it keeps complaceny at bay...
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

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