Scuba_Steve:
So let us return to the 100 hour, all male and all swimming course course and no one gets certified; gear costs the price of your first born and let the dive industry fizzle - good plan
British Expert Bashes Padi
- Thread starter cdiver2
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So let us return to the 100 hour, all male and all swimming course course and no one gets certified; gear costs the price of your first born and let the dive industry fizzle - good plan
ronbeau:
They (well, PADI at least) requires a doctor sign-off *IF* the student answers "yes" to any of the contraindication questions. I agonized over this a long time, because of my alergies I put "yes" on the form scared to death that the dive shop would not allow me to dive
After seeing the doctor and getting signed off I felt much better!! Just gotta keep those allergies in check.I can definitely see people lying on the form to keep from being barred from taking the class or at least to skip the hassle of getting a doctor signoff.
cdiver2:
I did see a couple threads where people posted as much... However, in my PADI class we asked the instructor a lot of material that was not in the book and he was happy to answer any questions. He also brought up a lot of stuff that was not in the book.
Put Another Dollar In...ok, and so what? I came up through PADI and I'm now a PADI Instructor. And, truly, I'm not ashamed of PADI's reputation for "pushing" continuing education. My safety and "life" is worth putting some money towards GOOD education. Not the "fluff" classes...but truly good classes that teach valuable underwater skills.
If you want to get better at tennis, you hire a tennis pro. The same with golf. Yeah, you play enough matches or rounds and maybe you'll improve, but if you want good techniques...you hire a pro to work with.
Why should it be different with scuba? A good PADI Instructor is going to tout the advantage to continuing education. That pathway begins with ADVANCED OPEN WATER. This is the course where we take the SKILLS that you learn as an OW diver and APPLY them in 5 real diving experiences. Then, the student is encouraged to seek more education. Take more classes. And I think that's good.
Now, to look at NOT encouraging AOW. Should we send OW students with 4 dives out to gain experience on their own...with who? Other OW students that they met in their class with 4 OW dives also? That seems absurd. If an OW student continues directly with AOW, they then have their first 9 dives under the supervision of an instructor. Bad habits have a better chance of being avoided and the safety factor increases.
I'll stand behind PADI. Or NAUI...or SSI...or any agency that promotes divers getting better and MORE education.
Cindy
www.girldiver.com
If you want to get better at tennis, you hire a tennis pro. The same with golf. Yeah, you play enough matches or rounds and maybe you'll improve, but if you want good techniques...you hire a pro to work with.
Why should it be different with scuba? A good PADI Instructor is going to tout the advantage to continuing education. That pathway begins with ADVANCED OPEN WATER. This is the course where we take the SKILLS that you learn as an OW diver and APPLY them in 5 real diving experiences. Then, the student is encouraged to seek more education. Take more classes. And I think that's good.
Now, to look at NOT encouraging AOW. Should we send OW students with 4 dives out to gain experience on their own...with who? Other OW students that they met in their class with 4 OW dives also? That seems absurd. If an OW student continues directly with AOW, they then have their first 9 dives under the supervision of an instructor. Bad habits have a better chance of being avoided and the safety factor increases.
I'll stand behind PADI. Or NAUI...or SSI...or any agency that promotes divers getting better and MORE education.
Cindy
www.girldiver.com
TheHobster:
I think that you've been on the board long enough that you must have read some of the many threads where this has been discussed in great detail. I, for one, don't think that what we need is a hard class or even a very long class. What worked well for me was a VERY different class.
When more of the basic mechanics of diving is taught earlier, it all goes easier on the student and the instructor, in my experience. Nor pushups, running or miles and miles of swimming...just learning buoyancy control, the mechanics of trim, gas management, midwater skills done as a buddy team and so forth before going to open water. All that might sound hard to some divers but it isn't when they are taught how. It's just that most classes don't teach it and standards certainly don't require it.
So, not harder material, just different material that makes diving easier, NOT HARDER.
girldiverllc:
I came up through PADI and was a PADI instructor too. Maybe you can let us in on what some of these "valuable underwater skills" are that are taught in PADI coned courses?
I disagree. The AOW course is where they take divers who have as little as 4 OW dives and have never been taught to control their position in the water on a deep dive.
This why we need to have this discussion with the training standards right in front of us.
What are the buoyancy control requirements on the tour portion of the OW training dives? Now lets discuss the AOW deep dive.
What sense does it make to take a student deep when they havent yet been required to demonstrate that they can dive well shallow?
Also note that you can become an instructor with only one dive below 60 ft yourself (the one you did in your own OW course). Now as a PADI instructor, you can teach to 100 ft.
The PADI AOW deep dive is the most frightening (and useless) thing in all the diving world.
Maybe it is obsurd but what does the agency claim that their OW course qualifies a diver to do? Isn't it something like independantly plan and conduct OW dives in an environment as good or better that the one they were trained in? Note the word independant.
Nonsense, all that time spent learning skills only on their knees taught them NOTHING except bad habits. Not spending any time learning to perform skills midwater failed to teach them ANY good habits. Not teaching the mechanics of trim and position control, Not teaching them gas management, to function as a buddy (they don't even have to demonstrate that they can stay with a buddy through a descent) left them pretty much nowhere at all. Well it leaves them at a 45 degree angle finning like crazy to maintain position and not having a clue about what's wrong. None of that is taught at any level and even the instructors were never required to demonstrate mastery of it.
the safety factor increases? Maybe you should research just how many student have been hurt doing AOW deep training dives and how. Then look into how many near missed you can find that luckily didn't result in injury.
Taking divers with that knowledge and skill level on a deep dive is what is absurd.
That's just it. They may promote "more education" (more cards) but "better education" never enters into it.
True, but as I remember, part of the training included the advice/instruction that if you dive in unfamiliar conditions you should seek out a local guide for orientation dives first.SNorman:
Basically this is always good advice. Even with 150 dives under my belt I'd still want to consult someone with more experience before diving a new site - even one in my local area.
plot:
Hey, in a completely free market you'd be able to buy c-cards for about $10. It's only tort law that even keeps the standards as high as they are now.
String:
OK most agencies then
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