Buying Suunto from LDS or LeisurePro and warranty info..

[pterantula]

For me, it's not an either-or situation; I go to LP for a lot of little things, things I know I need but also know won't require alot of nuance - e.g., shotbags, knives, torches, Pelican cases, BC accessories, since the prices are not only good but their return window is huge. I also bought my computer - Oceanic Veo 180 - from them, even after being told by Oceanic that they will not honor a warranty from LP sales, since the price was right and I may buy more/other computers in the future anyway. (As it is, I like the Veo 180, and may simply buy a backup; as a professional musician from a family of photographers/cinematographers, I have to agree that a backup is more effective than a good warranty, at any price.)
I bought my reg and my wetsuits from my LDS, since those are more personal things, and I'll pay more for a reg if I'm getting my shop standing behind it (as well, how could I pass up the free octo deal from AL?...)


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[scubadobadoo]

Is that the shop that you instruct through? I thought that might be another reason.

For the record, that isn't what I was implying this time even if it was an interesting point. I do find that most of the folks who staunchly support LDS's on this board are frequently working at one in some capacity. Not always of course.

Seriously though, regardless of how I dive and whom I choose to dive with, I think it's great if someone has a happy relationship with a LDS. If both parties get something out of it, then go for it. Some LDS's are wonderful places where friendships and good times abound. Some LDS's are crap holes where people with little information sell high priced gear.

 

[redacted]

I'm not an instructor, but I am a DCS through the shop. I purchased virtually all my gear and my wife's gear about a year prior to becoming a DCS. My reasons for buying at the LDS have not changed since that purchase.

Any other thoughts?

I would expect divers affiliated with a shop in a "professional" manner would favor purchasing from that shop whenever possible. Even without key person discounts, other benefits including diving activities at reduced costs would tend to bias those individuals in favor of their LDS. Unfortunately, it is my impression that much of the opposition to internet purchases (some well founded and some just hype) comes from folks with a "professional" relationship with an LDS.

 

[dherbman]

I would expect divers affiliated with a shop in a "professional" manner would favor purchasing from that shop whenever possible. Even without key person discounts, other benefits including diving activities at reduced costs would tend to bias those individuals in favor of their LDS. Unfortunately, it is my impression that much of the opposition to internet purchases (some well founded and some just hype) comes from folks with a "professional" relationship with an LDS.

I post here as a diver, not as a professional with an agenda. As a diver, I can see both sides of the debate and I favor supporting the LDS for reasons I have arrived at independantly of SB or the LDS influence.

Aside from consultation and support, I prefer to support the LDS because it supports diving. Without it, there would be no base of divers here. I need other divers to progress in my own diving.

People aren't getting rich running shops. Most barely get by. This can be due to poor management, but often is more related to the area they are in. I feel my LDS provides a valuable service and that they should be allowed to make a living for providing the service. Air fills are not going to keep a shop's doors open.

 

[scubadobadoo]

Once again, I think we run into the problem of "A" and "THE" lds. I don't support "THE" lds, I support "A" lds that doesn't suck. Not every lds deserves to be supported or defended thus not every lds can be grouped into the category known as "THE" lds.

All that said, most lds's don't support the other lds's in their area unless they are talking about "THE" lds here on Scuba Board. Most lds's will tell you in person that the other or "A" lds in their area sucks and to buy from them, making most of the support given for lds's on Scuba Board, by lds's, simply a request to not support other lds's but rather a request to support their lds, also known as "THE" lds to them.

 

[LavaSurfer]

I've read posts about LDS not honoring warranty for internet purchases of bcd's or purchases made on the internet just don't have a warranty. Does this also apply to internet purchase of Suunto computers. The price difference is serious. About 250 bucks for the vyper and cobra. I figure that I would have to send the puter back to suunto anyways -dive shop can't fix it. What say you? Thanks kk

Here is the deal as I understand it.
Leisurepro has thier own way of warrenties, Basically they will fix it or replace it if they can. That alone scares me.

I bought an Oceanic Atom 1 from them, it was bad. Oceanic said they would honor the factory warrenty but I had to pay shipping and then they recommended that I send it back and get a DC from an authorized dealer that could give me service. Thats the route I chose and I am happy.

My wife has an Oceanic VT-Pro that we also bought from Leaisurepro and it works like a champ. No issues and I imagine if it ever breaks I may be in for a battle.

Its really up to your own descression but think it through.

I also bought BC's online. Two have gone bad (Power Inflators failed) so rather than pay shipping I just replaced the inflators myself for $20 (Bought off the internet).

Just some ideas where an LDS might have been helpful in solving everyday problems.

 

[scubadobadoo]

Here is the deal as I understand it.
Leisurepro has thier own way of warrenties, Basically they will fix it or replace it if they can. That alone scares me.

I bought an Oceanic Atom 1 from them, it was bad. Oceanic said they would honor the factory warrenty but I had to pay shipping and then they recommended that I send it back and get a DC from an authorized dealer that could give me service. Thats the route I chose and I am happy.

My wife has an Oceanic VT-Pro that we also bought from Leaisurepro and it works like a champ. No issues and I imagine if it ever breaks I may be in for a battle.

Its really up to your own descression but think it through.

I also bought BC's online. Two have gone bad (Power Inflators failed) so rather than pay shipping I just replaced the inflators myself for $20 (Bought off the internet).

Just some ideas where an LDS might have been helpful in solving everyday problems.

So what did LP offer? What is their side of the story? According to your post, you didn't even contact LP or you left out a huge chunk of the story. I'm confused. LP gave you a refund? If you are going to state that one business sucks, then you have to prove that statement with the complete story. As it stands, you didn't give LP a chance to solve the problem. You purchased gear from them, were aware of their warranty that they offer, and chose not to let them try? So what is the LP side of thes story? If their warranty scares you then you shouldn't have purchased from them. If you weren't aware of their warranty (clearly stated on their web page) when you made the purchase, then don't blame them for following their rules. You don't have the right to bash without telling the full story. That is slander. All you have offered thus far is slander. Nothing personal, but if you attack you have to back. Clarification needed please. So you bought from LP, it didn't work, and they gave you a refund? SOunds ok to me. Glad everything worked out for you.

 

[driftin' by]

I can't help but to weigh in on this subject. I disagree with the statement that your LDS has a better time dealing with the manufacturers. I recently have established myself with a new LDS as a result of a out-of-state/cross-country move. I support my new LDS but my previous LDS, where my wife and I loyally purchased all of our gear, training and training materials from made me a believer that all the headaches associated with buying online would be well worth it. My first incident was with the length of the LP (Low Pressure) hose supplied with my Atomic SS1. After dealing with the shop that there existed a potential hazard they eventually came to the conclusion that there was nothing that could be done. I called Atomic directly, explained the problem and they immediately resolved it by sending out new, custom made, shorter hoses and asked that I didn't use the equipment until I received new hoses because of the potential hazard. My second issue was regarding my ill fitted BCD. After using the BC for the first time in open water (they had no pool on-site for trying equipment) I returned with it to the shop and after spending 3 house with the salesman to try to figure out a solution, he had me believing that my body shape (nothing extraordinary, I'm at 6'2'' 210lbs) was to blame that I would just have to live it. That was just about 2 years ago and after a recent trip to Cozumel, I decided that I'd would the BC and buy a new one. After making a post here on SB about how I despised my BC a fellow SB'er who was a partner of a dive shop that sold the same brand of BC's, suggested that I contact the manufacturer directly since I my relationship with my previous LDS was spoiled. After a 10 minute conversation with the manufacturer they are going to honor what my previous LDS never did (a 30-day satisfaction guarantee) and allow me to exchange my BC directly to them for one that fits correctly.

Oh and regarding the quick turn around on service... well first off, it took them 5 weeks to fulfill our original order of equipment (BC's, Regs, computers) which I thought we'd have right away. Secondly, on our first, 1 year service, it took them 3 weeks and when I went to pick up the gear, they realized that they didn't service 1 reg and they attempted to charge me for the service kits which are provided free by the manufacturer.

Already, I've had lengthy conversations with the owner of my new LDS. His philosophy is refreshing.... He will not loose a sale to the internet. He said that if someone comes in to try something out and leaves without buy it, he'll stop them, ask them where they're going to go buy it online and offer to match the price. He said he'd rather make $.01 on something then nothing at all. He offered this information to me before I made my first purchase.

I do worry at times where I'll get my air if people stop supporting their LDS. I've been to places where that is all people do is sell air and they seem to be getting by okay. I also have to remind myself that another big part of their business is training. I think they break even on travel by comp-ing the DM/leader's trip. I don't think they'll disappear but they're going to have to become more competitive. If LP can get cobras and sell them for a lot less, then why can't the LDS? LP wouldn't sell them if there was no margin... it wouldn't be worth the overhead. My previous LDS experience was awful and they provided nothing more to me then a place to use my credit cards. In the future, I'm going to be more mindful about my purchases. I'll definitely give my LDS the first opportunity to earn my business but in the event it's is a brand they don't carry, I won't hesitate to buy online base on the experiences I've had dealing with manufacturers directly. The point someone made about the difference in price being worth the warranty... I think not! Buy it from LP if the LDS won't match or try to come close.

 

[TexasScubaDiver]

While ScubaToys is an authorized dealer for several manufacturers, they are not authorized to set or modify factory warantees. If you buy online from ScubaToys and the manufacturer has a policy against online sales, it is likely that you will not have a 'valid' factory warantee.

In addition to pre-sale consultation, there are other advantages of dealing with the LDS. As an individual, you have less power with the manufacturer. I wasted weeks going back and forth with Suunto support. One phone call from the LDS to their contact and the ball was rolling.

Point of clarification - since ScubaToys.com is an authorized dealer, the warranty IS the same as any LDS. In fact, I sent items back to the factory with the Scuba Toys listed as the vendor on the warranty card w/o a problem. You just have to call the manufacturers 800 line, get a "Return Authorization Number", and ship.

This differs from Leisure Pro, which will offer the best price but w/o any manufacturer warranty. Sometimes Leisure Pro is so cheap, it makes it worthwhile to take the risk. I actually ended up selling my orginal equipment I bought from them 3 years later for what I paid for it new. Not a bad deal.

LDS shopping is valuable to buyers seeking personal attention but for me, I shop based on price and selection so it doesn't fit my preferences. Even when my Versa Pro was recalled, my LDS would not give me a new one from inventory. That's why I ended up just sending it back on my own. Not against the LDS's, just illustrating the fact that they are not offering me anything different than the online dealers except for high prices.

 

[redacted]

My second issue was regarding my ill fitted BCD. After using the BC for the first time in open water (they had no pool on-site for trying equipment) I returned with it to the shop and after spending 3 house with the salesman to try to figure out a solution, he had me believing that my body shape (nothing extraordinary, I'm at 6'2'' 210lbs) was to blame that I would just have to live it. That was just about 2 years ago and after a recent trip to Cozumel, I decided that I'd would the BC and buy a new one. After making a post here on SB about how I despised my BC a fellow SB'er who was a partner of a dive shop that sold the same brand of BC's, suggested that I contact the manufacturer directly since I my relationship with my previous LDS was spoiled. After a 10 minute conversation with the manufacturer they are going to honor what my previous LDS never did (a 30-day satisfaction guarantee) and allow me to exchange my BC directly to them for one that fits correctly.

To give credit where credit is due, what BC manufacturer provided such outstanding service.