Cave Certs Expiration

[Imbodie]

After 1500+ cave divers I really believe in this, matter of fact in a new system I become the intro diver and dive to 1/6s, and then build on learning,because you must always remember- line doesn't guarantee an exit, just increases your probability of survival.

nothing guarantees exit and I TOTALLY agree on progressive exploration... so if historically 3rds was the rule...for EVERYONE... why not make a push to bring it back and then leave it with the diver (which its open now anyway, breaking 6ths is a choice) to dive to what ever level of gas usage they feel appropriate for where they are diving.

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

nothing guarantees exit and I TOTALLY agree on progressive exploration... so if historically 3rds was the rule...for EVERYONE... why not make a push to bring it back and then leave it with the diver (which its open now anyway, breaking 6ths is a choice) to dive to what ever level of gas usage they feel appropriate for where they are diving.

It was thirds of a single tank for intro divers. Cave divers could use doubles. You are STILL limited on the gas you can use for penetration at the intro level.

 

[Imbodie]

OK... MY POINT IS.... bring it back to a standard across the board.... your not limiting ANYONE.... divers that don't want to dive 6ths are not going to ANYWAY... The ONLY person that is going to know the difference is the diver that is already breaking the 6ths rule.... isn't going to be put in that position anymore.

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

Your point is moot. Whether it's sixths from twins or thirds from doubles is absolutely irrelevant. We don't advocate or concede breaking the standards anymore than we raise speed limits because some people speed (as was mentioned earlier).

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

You do understand that thirds from a single tank and sixths from a twinset are the same right? I just want to make that clear.

 

[Imbodie]

You do understand that thirds from a single tank and sixths from a twinset are the same right? I just want to make that clear.

I think the government already raised the speedlimit.... don't remember there being a good reason for it except maybe fuel economy was no longer a concern (thinking that is why it was lowered) and people were all exceeding 55 mph anyway (pretty much the same issue)

yes I understand.... but completely not my point....

If I as a NAUI Cave1 diver have by my standards access to 1/3 of my breathing gas for penetration (whether or not I use the full 1/3 of it) Then why are equivalent certifications limited to 1/6 of their available breathing gas??

And don't even start on progressive penetration.... I can do two nav decissions and BY CHOICE have ever only done one on a given dive because I'm NOT READY to do two.... If I can be an adult about progressive learning POST certification... so can everyone else...

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

I think the government already raised the speedlimit.... don't remember there being a good reason for it except maybe fuel economy was no longer a concern (thinking that is why it was lowered) and people were all exceeding 55 mph anyway (pretty much the same issue)

yes I understand.... but completely not my point....

If I as a NAUI Cave1 diver have by my standards access to 1/3 of my breathing gas for penetration (whether or not I use the full 1/3 of it) Then why are equivalent certifications limited to 1/6 of their available breathing gas??

And don't even start on progressive penetration.... I can do two nav decissions and BY CHOICE have ever only done one on a given dive because I'm NOT READY to do two.... If I can be an adult about progressive learning POST certification... so can everyone else...

On one hand you advocate changing the standards because everyone breaks them anyways and on the other hand you tell me that YOU don't break standards and because you can be an adult and do what's right everyone should be able to do so as well.

Do you see the conflict here?

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

Agencies should not lower the standards to meet the student or their expectations. They should do what is safe and prudent. They should use the lessons taught by history.

 

[Imbodie]

On one hand you advocate changing the standards because everyone breaks them anyways and on the other hand you tell me that YOU don't break standards and because you can be an adult and do what's right everyone should be able to do so as well.

Do you see the conflict here?

Yes I do... and no I don't.
I see 6ths as a marketing ploy, not as a safety requirement.... SHOW me ANY mid-level cert fatalities or incidents that involved to far penetration because of the rule of 3rds... My cert level has reasonable requirements... there is no reason for me to break any of them...

REASONABLE STANDARDS (across the board/all agencies).... that is my ONLY argument.... you (and everyone else) keeps yelling SAFETY but no one has presented a case where 3rds was the cause of an intermediate level diver to be harmed...

 

[Imbodie]

Agencies should not lower the standards to meet the student or their expectations. They should do what is safe and prudent. They should use the lessons taught by history.

Show me some history.... (or money... I'll gladly take some cash and shut up)