Cave Diver mishap Ginnie Springs 04SEP09

[Meng_Tze]

....
...The two tunnels look a lot different,..

a LOT of difference. Anyone who has been on both sides would instantly recognize this. Also coming out of the express way/ crack the flow in the main tunnel is instantly recognizable.

Could it be that the original plan was to go up 400 and when Bruce came out of the crack went looking for his buddy up the 400 line in the state he was in?

I can imagine with potential tunnel vision, one would want to hook up with the buddy who you expect to have been gone up 400 as you didn't find him at the jump? If you know you run low on gas, and you do not have enough gas to get out, could you not decide to chance it to find the buddy along the agreed planned route?

That is the only reason I can think of to want to deliberately swim deeper into the cave in this situation.

 

[alanboss]

I have read all of your thoughts on what you think had happend and I can tell you as his son I didnt know him well but I did know his character he does not panic he was a marine in nam and once a marine always a marine I can tell you this for sure even when he knew he was at the end of his rope he did not panic he just excepted his fate and went he always lived on the edge and I am sure he died the way he would have wanted to doing what he loved. You can say all you want about what youthink happend but know he never paniced it was not in him to. Bruce R.I.P.

 

[bamamedic]

I have read all of your thoughts on what you think had happend and I can tell you as his son I didnt know him well but I did know his character he does not panic he was a marine in nam and once a marine always a marine I can tell you this for sure even when he knew he was at the end of his rope he did not panic he just excepted his fate and went he always lived on the edge and I am sure he died the way he would have wanted to doing what he loved. You can say all you want about what youthink happend but know he never paniced it was not in him to. Bruce R.I.P.

I'm so very sorry for your loss. I never had the opportunity to meet Bruce, but from what his friends and his dive buddies say, he was a fantastic man and a great diver.

As cave divers, what we're trying to do on this thread is figure out what happened, so hopefully, we can learn something from this tragic situation. Maybe, we can figure out what lead up to his death (whether it was an equipment malfunction, or buddy separation, etc), and learn how to prevent that situation in the future.

One of the theories that tends to come up in these types of situations is "panic". Definitely not panic in the sense of complete loss of control, but more of a perceptual narrowing type of thing. By mentioning "panic", we're in no way trying to discredit your dad or say he reacted inappropriately....it's just one of those theories that tends to come up in any accident analysis.

I can't even imagine what you're going through right now. I just want you to know that no one is trying to put down your dad; we're just trying to learn from the accident in order to try to prevent it from happening in the future.

If there's any questions I can answer, or anything I can do to help, please don't hesitate to send me a private message.

Rita

 

[alanboss]

Rita thank you for your words I am sorry if you thought I meant what I said in a bad way tawards you guys I didnt.I hope you guys keep trying to figure out what happend and please let me know.
I do open water diving here in jersey not cert. yet go with a buddy of mine , I can understand what you guys are talking about. I just wanted you guys to know that he might have made a mistake but I don't believe he panic'd hopefully some day we might know the truth
Alan

 

[mkutyna]

Any cave divers that have rolled in the mud before care to comment about getting mud on the mask lens to the point that it is difficult to wipe off? Some reports I've read mentioned Bruce covered in mud. If that is what happened, it may explain some confusion about heading up Hill 400.

I assume he had a spare mask as well but I haven't heard if that was deployed or not. I do know that there have been times where I encounter some thick clay and it takes a while to wipe off.

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Can't say I've ever stuck my face in the mud :/

 

[contender]

Any cave divers that have rolled in the mud before care to comment about getting mud on the mask lens to the point that it is difficult to wipe off? Some reports I've read mentioned Bruce covered in mud. If that is what happened, it may explain some confusion about heading up Hill 400.

I assume he had a spare mask as well but I haven't heard if that was deployed or not. I do know that there have been times where I encounter some thick clay and it takes a while to wipe off.

Not an issue

 

[Juno]

I have had some mud that was easily wiped off, but things add up. Even things that would normally be considered an inconvenience can add to one's stress level when the poop hit's the fan.

I cut the LP hose on the SM tank I was breathing in Cow a few months back. I isolated and signaled the team I was hasteniing my exit. The short itme it took me to recognize the failure, switch regs and isolate (under 30 seconds??, I wasn't counting.) I lost 1500 lbs. I was amazed at how much gas I lost and the the sinking feeling I had when it occured.

The point is a free flow would be very similar and could lose almost as much gas in the same time. I would not want one to occur in the Crack for sure. So, muddy conditions, an isolated empty tank, yes a free flow or other problem is a definite possibility and would answer a lot of questions as to why Bruce ran out of air.

 

[Rick Murchison]

... If you know you run low on gas, and you do not have enough gas to get out, could you not decide to chance it to find the buddy along the agreed planned route?...

Sort of along the same lines, there's the possibility that he felt his best chance of meeting someone - anyone - with gas was to head up the Hil 400 line...
...
on another issue, it's been posted elsewhere that contrary to earlier reports, he was not muddy...
Rick

 

[Web Monkey]

If there's a *main* lesson for me on this one, it's reinforcing my anal insistance on "no visual jumps" and my aversion to small silty low flow passages.
Rick

The difference between "paranoid" and "careful" can only be determined in hindsight.

Terry