Charter Associations - Watchdog or Price fixer?

[sparky30]

I just read through the transport canada website.. Any boat under 60 tons carrying up to 12 passengers requires a limited masters license to operate. This includes most dive charters. The crewing regulations are quite strict on this.. I only know of one charter operator with his master license.. how are the other one's doing it?? I thought about starting a dive charter business myself, (part time on weekends) but I couldn't figuire out how to get past the regulation or get enough sea time to qualify for the license.. Any suggestions?
I guess this means a lot of charter operators are operating illegally, or I'm really missing something... How do they get liablity insurance like that?

 

[Bubble Boy]

sparky30 once bubbled...
I just read through the transport canada website.. Any boat under 60 tons carrying up to 12 passengers requires a limited masters license to operate.

Don't forget the over 5 tons part.

 

[Butch103]

sparky30 once bubbled...
I just read through the transport canada website.. Any boat under 60 tons carrying up to 12 passengers requires a limited masters license to operate. This includes most dive charters. The crewing regulations are quite strict on this.. I only know of one charter operator with his master license.. how are the other one's doing it?? I thought about starting a dive charter business myself, (part time on weekends) but I couldn't figuire out how to get past the regulation or get enough sea time to qualify for the license.. Any suggestions?
I guess this means a lot of charter operators are operating illegally, or I'm really missing something... How do they get liablity insurance like that?

He will likely have the answer for you. If Iam not mistaken ( if I am wrong I apologize) he is the only licensed master of a dive boat in Kingston. But I could stand corrected or need more information.

 

[Bubble Boy]

1. Passenger vessels of not more than 5 tons gross tonnage are not required to carry a certificated master. However the person in charge of the vessel is required to be capable of operating the vessel in a safe manner. During an inspection the Marine Safety Inspector will ask questions and may require a demonstration of competence in the running of the vessel in order to be satisfied that any crew and the person in charge has the necessary skills and knowledge to operate the vessel safely for its intended voyage.

2. Passenger vessels more than 5 tons gross tonnage require a certificated master. The class of voyage, as described in the Home Trade, Inland and Minor Water Voyages Regulations will determine the minimum level of certification required.

3 Passenger vessels with a propulsive power of over 75 kW are required to carry a certificated engineer. In some cases a dual capacity master / engineer will be permitted.

 

[eagleray2003]

I would have to agree with SeaHunter I have never heard of any association price fixing the price down to help the consumer out, most associations or business groups try to fix prices so they control fees charged and if everyone charges $75. the consumer has no choice, but keep in mind there is always someone out there lingering ready to cut your throat! I just heard of a scuba shop that is going to offer open water courses for the cost of course materials and pic envelope. Equipment rentals, pool and instruction as well as open water dives are free!

 

[taz22]

sparky30 once bubbled...
I just read through the transport canada website.. Any boat under 60 tons carrying up to 12 passengers requires a limited masters license to operate. This includes most dive charters. The crewing regulations are quite strict on this.. I only know of one charter operator with his master license.. how are the other one's doing it?? I thought about starting a dive charter business myself, (part time on weekends) but I couldn't figuire out how to get past the regulation or get enough sea time to qualify for the license.. Any suggestions?
I guess this means a lot of charter operators are operating illegally, or I'm really missing something... How do they get liablity insurance like that?

You'll find most charter operators have an insured Divemaster as minimum on the boat when it is under 5 tonnes as mentioned in the post above.

If you do your home work you'll find most charter operators operator within the laws we have and all this talk about license Master stuff is just to strike fear into people and make themselves to be somthing bigger than they are.

I have been boating for close to 20 years now and just because someone has "Master" papers doesn't mean that he/she is any more better at driving a boat than I am. It tells me that they have had the time to committ to taking such training. But in the end, with my experience and a Divemaster designation with insurance through PADI, I could operate a insured charter operation if I choose to do so. However, I boat for fun, not to make money, so I choose to use the services of a number of charter operators that do just fine by me.

Let's get off this talk about Master papers yada yada yada. In the end it's just a bunch of BS!

 

[sparky30]

taz22 once bubbled...



You'll find most charter operators have an insured Divemaster as minimum on the boat when it is under 5 tonnes as mentioned in the post above.

If you do your home work you'll find most charter operators operator within the laws we have and all this talk about license Master stuff is just to strike fear into people and make themselves to be somthing bigger than they are.

I have been boating for close to 20 years now and just because someone has "Master" papers doesn't mean that he/she is any more better at driving a boat than I am. It tells me that they have had the time to committ to taking such training. But in the end, with my experience and a Divemaster designation with insurance through PADI, I could operate a insured charter operation if I choose to do so. However, I boat for fun, not to make money, so I choose to use the services of a number of charter operators that do just fine by me.

Let's get off this talk about Master papers yada yada yada. In the end it's just a bunch of BS!

I sort of agree with you.. I've been boating for 10 years now.. Not as long as you have, but still long enough. I don't doubt that you are qualified to run a dive charter.. This still doesn't change the facts or the laws.. The reason I brought it up is because I was considering opeing my own charter business.. In the process of doing the homework I stumbled accross all kinds of rules..
I knew about the 5 tons rule.. Very nice.. but.. Most boats over 30ft would be above the 5 ton limit..I checked.. (There is a formula and all kinds of reference material on the transport canada site on how to calculate tonnage for small vessels)
Now personally I really wouldn care who drove the boat as long as they knew what they were doing.. I also know that all the folks carry insurance.. I'm just questioning what will happen when you file an insurance claim and they find out the boat is over 5 tons, and the paperwork isn't all there.. Good luck trying to get your money...

 

[Bubble Boy]

sparky30 once bubbled...


.. but.. Most boats over 30ft would be above the 5 ton limit..I checked.. (There is a formula and all kinds of reference material on the transport canada site on how to calculate tonnage for small vessels)
Now personally I really wouldn care who drove the boat as long as they knew what they were doing.. I also know that all the folks carry insurance.. I'm just questioning what will happen when you file an insurance claim and they find out the boat is over 5 tons, and the paperwork isn't all there.. Good luck trying to get your money...

The law is the law as you pointed out and you are very correct in that if you are violating the law the chances of getting insurance money are nil. Sort of like drinking and driving....you are now uninsured.

Most boats over 30ft would be over the 5 ton limit but that leaves a big loop hole for those operating pontoon boats as charter boats.

My personal belief is the law to a point should be based on the passenger count and not the vessel size. Mandatory life boats for instance should be based on the passenger count and not the tonnage. The life boat is to save the people and not the boat.

My experience is that the charter boats are not all insured. Some dont get the insurance as they figure they can not afford it or because they know they are breaking the law and it would be unusable anyways. Fortunately, most of these operators dont last long or get educated.

 

[Tom R]

Shuddering, I'm entering the conversation.

I was at a meeting, and we had it all laid out to us. The minute there is an ASSUMPTION of moneys being paid. That would also include the instructor with his boat taking his students out to certify. You're now commercial and all the rules apply to you. That includes everything from digny's to tugs. The size rules dictate what safety stuff you must have.

Tom

 

[divedude]

taz22 once bubbled...
If you do your home work you'll find most charter operators operator within the laws we have and all this talk about license Master stuff is just to strike fear into people and make themselves to be somthing bigger than they are.

I have been boating for close to 20 years now and just because someone has "Master" papers doesn't mean that he/she is any more better at driving a boat than I am. It tells me that they have had the time to committ to taking such training. But in the end, with my experience and a Divemaster designation with insurance through PADI, I could operate a insured charter operation if I choose to do so.

If you do, Don't get in a accident, or trouble. Or you'll wish you had a "Masters Certificate"

However, I boat for fun, not to make money, so I choose to use the services of a number of charter operators that do just fine by me.

Let's get off this talk about Master papers yada yada yada. In the end it's just a bunch of BS!

So what you are saying is YOU did your home work and with a divemaster on board your good to go!!! what the h*ll does a divemaster have to do with Transport Canada regulations?
I think your homework just got a "F"

And if you think I'm trying to make myself "Bigger than I am" You've never met me! I'm all ready bigger than I should be