CO2 retention question

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I see that some of the posts in this thread are suggesting trimix for dives in the range of 60-120 fsw. I'm wondering if that's a "policy" or a "recommendation" or just a "personal preference". Would someone please post the "official" GUE/DIR gas/depth recommendations for NDL dives?

I'm not trolling, but surely it can't be serious that GUE/DIR advocates one must to take trimix course and breathe 30/30 to dive deeper than 60 fsw. That sounds like a frivolous waste of helium, which is a non-renewable resource.
 
From the BAUE site
Standard Dive Mixes
The following standard mixes are based on the GUE standard gases. We use a standard set of mixes so that we can ensure consistency within the team and to help the divers learn the deco more easily.
Bottom Mixes
Depth in FSW Mix
10' - 80' EAN32
80' - 110' 30/30
110'-150' 21/35
160'-200' 18/45
210'-250' 15/55
250'-400' 10/70

Deco Mixes
Depth in FSW Mix
20' 100%
70' 50%
120' 35/25
190' 21/35

That said, I know of a few GUE card holders who dive exactly as you described. I agree with you. It's not only a waste of helium, but overkill as far as I'm concerned. Some wouldn't even breathe air on the surface if they didn't have to.
 
MaxBottomtime:
From the BAUE site
Standard Dive Mixes
The following standard mixes are based on the GUE standard gases. We use a standard set of mixes so that we can ensure consistency within the team and to help the divers learn the deco more easily.
Bottom Mixes
Depth in FSW Mix
10' - 80' EAN32
80' - 110' 30/30
110'-150' 21/35

[stuff deleted]

That said, I know of a few GUE card holders who dive exactly as you described. I agree with you. It's not only a waste of helium, but overkill as far as I'm concerned. Some wouldn't even breathe air on the surface if they didn't have to.
Since I don't want to be banished from this forum, I'll just say "Yah, what he said" and leave it at that.

Thanks for the clarification.
 
Daryl Morse:
I see that some of the posts in this thread are suggesting trimix for dives in the range of 60-120 fsw. I'm wondering if that's a "policy" or a "recommendation" or just a "personal preference". Would someone please post the "official" GUE/DIR gas/depth recommendations for NDL dives?

I'm not trolling, but surely it can't be serious that GUE/DIR advocates one must to take trimix course and breathe 30/30 to dive deeper than 60 fsw. That sounds like a frivolous waste of helium, which is a non-renewable resource.

EAN32 is perfectly acceptable for what you are talking about. The confusion lies in not getting another major component when forming the basis for gas selection which is time. If you were to do let's say a 90 or 120 min dive at 60', you'll need to reconsider your gas. Likewise, if you were to do a 45 min dive at 100'-120' before ascending.

We don't consider NDL as a limitation as every dive has minimum deco. Once we go considerably beyond this "limit" we go into deco and use other gases to help in our deco efficiency in the recreational range.

As a trained, educated diver, you have several gas options and hopefully, your team can come to an agreement, otherwise, you'll be constrained to NDL/MDL limitations.

As for He, once you've tasted and tried it, it's hard to go back to the "leaded gas" when you've breathed the premium stuff.

Sincerely,
H2
 
Daryl Morse:
That sounds like a frivolous waste of helium, which is a non-renewable resource.

So, if you added up all the helium ever used in diving, how does it compare to the worldwide helium consumption for a day?
 
lamont:
So, if you added up all the helium ever used in diving, how does it compare to the worldwide helium consumption for a day?
Let's see 900 weather balloons launched twice daily = 1800 balloons daily * 300 cf Helium per balloon. For only a 5# payload. And the balloons burst each time.

NASA's ultra-long duration balloon project launches payloads of 5000-8000lbs and uses 200,000 to 400,000 cf per 12-30 day mission.

How many blimps out there?

Good thing the project to use a helium suspended device on Mars was scrapped, that would have taken 3.7 Million cf.

I won't feel bad about breathing several thousand cf of helium over my lifetime.
 
HarryH97:
EAN32 is perfectly acceptable for what you are talking about. If you were to do let's say a 90 or 120 min dive at 60', you'll need to reconsider your gas.

Sincerely,
H2


I don't follow, why? Is Co2 rentention become more of problem just because you are there longer. IME, Co2 retention is an acute problem, developing (and resolving) pretty quickly.
 
lamont:
everyone is.


I don't really buy the idea that everyone is narced at 60'. Although any time you are breathing nitrogen under pressure it was the potential to impair you, at 60' (for most people) aren't we really talking about how you feel after a beer?
 
MASS-Diver:
I don't follow, why? Is Co2 rentention become more of problem just because you are there longer. IME, Co2 retention is an acute problem, developing (and resolving) pretty quickly.

Sorry, has nothing to do with CO2 and off the main topic. More precisely, I should say, has little to do with CO2. All are interelated. Your exposure is measured in depth and time, not depth alone. However, for recreational dives in both depth and time, I wouldn't think twice about using EAN32 at 60.' All things being equal, you can clear CO2 buildup by resting and doing nothing for a few minutes or just slow things down. In that regard, it's acute. If you've got complex gear, ill-fitting drysuit, harness, etc...or anything that causes you to work excessively hard such as the environment or causes the lack of O2 to your organs, CO2 will build up rapidly and exponentially. Since the rate of production is faster than the rate it's being metabolized and exhaled, symptoms of hypercapnia will eventually present itself. That is not an acute problem that is easily resolved without assistance. Of course each body is different. We USUALLY never want to get to that point...no headaches, no tiredness, nothing but feeling refreshed after the dive.

You are right on, everyone gets narced, it's a matter of degree not kind. The instant you are below the surface, physiologically your body is absorbing higher partial pressures of all gases. A sip of wine has varying effects on each body. Some people are finely tuned or aware of their BAC going from 0.00 to 0.01 to 0.02, etc... Some people aren't aware until 0.08 before feeling effects. Let's say you're the pilot of a small plane, flying a simple route across the state and you are getting ready to take off and are thirsty. Wine is free, bottled water costs $5, and vitamin infused water costs $10, and an energy drink costs $15. You'll be billed at your destination. That's all that's on board and you're traveling with a co-pilot only on a sightseeing flight. Weather appears to be clear, but its always unpredicatable in this state. You've flown this route plenty of times and it's easy. You're generally well rested and feeling ok. Pick your drink. There's are argument to be made with which drink and how you approach potentially changing conditions & environment. How sharp do you want your mind and body to be when executing emergency procedures? Bottomline, you've got some flexibility without compromising other procedures.

On the flip side, sometimes, you've got extra energy drinks, that you need to consume. I've had 21/35 mix that I've needed to 'burn-up' and used that in a recreational environment. Is it ideal? No, since I don't get any time advantage that EAN32 gives me, but there's nothing saying that I must only dive 21/35 in a certain band (excluding MOD).

Sincerely,
H2
 
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