collecting reef creatures

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Justin699:
one thing in particular is that we can buy coral rock (live rock) from fiji, once it comes in you can see that many of the life is dead and you can never know for sure if it was actually hacked off the reef or really the broken off pieces they claim it is
um, just how much rock do you suppose is just laying around waiting to be picked up by commerical ops?

http://www.reefguardian.org/WhyCare/FijiLiveRock.html
http://www.reefguardian.org/rgipetition.html

Hmm, off to scour the aquarium shops to see if anyone in Australia is culturing live rock :eyebrow:
 
scubaroo, thats my point exactly, I would like to bypass the destructive OVERharvesting of this stuff by selectively harvesting it myself. Thanks againt to everybody for the input
 
Self-collecting will also teach you quite a bit more about the critters and their ecological/environmental characteristics than you'd get from buying 'em at the store.

It also gets you outside.
 
I used to look in tide pools at low tide at night in the Philippines and Hawaii. I made the mistake at first of putting a "live rock" in mine. Turns out it had about 5 little crabs on it that grew up and one ate my little scorpion fish.
 
My two cents about the liverock. Buy as little as possible live and use dry base rock that came from an ancient reef. Less hitchhikers and less destruction. using Tamba Bay saltwater (www.tbsaltwater.com) or www.floridaliverock.com is a great source as it was dry rock they put in the ocean for the express purpose of making it live and selling for satwater tanks. www.Hirocks.com sells dry base rock. And if you are lucky enough to be in Utah you can collect it for free on the west side of the salt lake. (www.utahreefs.com serach utah aragonite). Or checkout out www.GARF.org and make your own rock from cement and crushed coral.
I have personnally collected some small broken off corals and snails and hermits for my tank. I just put them in a water bottle and carried it on the plane. With a spare bottle of water for water changes. Everything did great. I have collected snails and such (no fish) in FL, southern CA and the sea of cortez, with very minimal casualties.
I know you can get collecting permits in Hawaii, but it is extremely hard to catch the fish. Also in the Keys there is a dive boat that helps you go out and catch your fish for yout tank.
Tank-raised is the way to go on fish IMO.

Good luck and save a reef build your own!
 
Justin699:
I keep a reef tank in my house. In order to stock it I have to go to the fish store and buy fish that were caught on reefs around the world, these fish usually have a 90% fatality rate before they even reach the consumer and during the take they usually use cyanide or other nasty methods that aren't good for our reefs. Does anybody have any experience either in the states or internationally with collecting small reef fish or inverts and bringing them home. I have heard about special permits in hawaii, but does anybody else have additional info.

I think you have your priorities mixed up! The fish you buy at the store have a more survivabilty rate than if you catch them yourself. Not to mention its illegal and I think
if you really want a cool aquarium you need to dive more often and buy a camera.
Too many divers are doing just what you intend and I personaly find it rediculous.
Im going to tell you how I feel about it because I spend Thousands of hours protecting and maintaining reefs and I see what happens when people like you abuse them.
Its not yours to take and it isnt right for you to take advantage of what is there for you to see and enjoy not to destroy. Most of the fish you purchase from the pet shop
are farm raised. I say that with expierience ,since I used to own a tropical fish store.
I hope you will see what you intend to do is wrong and will change your ideals.
If not? then let me asure you that if i ever see you taking any restricted animal that I will see you prosecuted and put in a cage so youll understand what its like to be held captive against your will!
 
refsavers.org:
I think you have your priorities mixed up! The fish you buy at the store have a more survivabilty rate than if you catch them yourself. Not to mention its illegal and I think
if you really want a cool aquarium you need to dive more often and buy a camera.
Too many divers are doing just what you intend and I personaly find it rediculous.
Im going to tell you how I feel about it because I spend Thousands of hours protecting and maintaining reefs and I see what happens when people like you abuse them.
Its not yours to take and it isnt right for you to take advantage of what is there for you to see and enjoy not to destroy. Most of the fish you purchase from the pet shop
are farm raised. I say that with expierience ,since I used to own a tropical fish store.
I hope you will see what you intend to do is wrong and will change your ideals.
If not? then let me asure you that if i ever see you taking any restricted animal that I will see you prosecuted and put in a cage so youll understand what its like to be held captive against your will!

It is not illegal to harvest ornamental salt water fish in Florida according to the Florida Saltwater Fishing Regulations 2005. The limit with a recreational salt water fishing license is no more that 20 a day, no more than 5 of those can be French Angel.It is illegal to harvest live rock. It is illegal to harvest in Pennecamp or Biscayne Monument. It is legal to harvest ornamental tropical fish.

The fact is, that it is legal. The environmental movement needs to stick to the facts if it is to maintain credibility, there are problems enough publicizing the real facts.
 
refsavers.org:
I think you have your priorities mixed up! The fish you buy at the store have a more survivabilty rate than if you catch them yourself. Not to mention its illegal and I think
if you really want a cool aquarium you need to dive more often and buy a camera.
Too many divers are doing just what you intend and I personaly find it rediculous.
Im going to tell you how I feel about it because I spend Thousands of hours protecting and maintaining reefs and I see what happens when people like you abuse them.
Its not yours to take and it isnt right for you to take advantage of what is there for you to see and enjoy not to destroy. Most of the fish you purchase from the pet shop
are farm raised. I say that with expierience ,since I used to own a tropical fish store.
I hope you will see what you intend to do is wrong and will change your ideals.
If not? then let me asure you that if i ever see you taking any restricted animal that I will see you prosecuted and put in a cage so youll understand what its like to be held captive against your will!

Sam,
Your complete ignorance of what you just said suprises me, considering you claim to be the president of a reef saving society or something like that. First off, you need to know that i did not violate any laws, secondly your comments violate the TOS for this forum. I will then go line for line to expose the fallacies in your statements. While the fish you buy in the store might have a higher survivability rate, you forgot to mention the 9 other fish that were collected with cyanide that died before getting to the store. Collecting your own fish is safer and better for the populations, mainly because a collector gathers one or two specimens and ends up with one or two specimens, while collectors gather 10 for each specimen you see in the store. You probably were not aware that many reef fish are collected from deeper parts of the reef, they are not properly decompressed and are brought up fast, causing their swim bladders to purge out through their mouths, collectors then prick their swim bladders with a pin to deflate them, many survive but frequently they die shortly after or just never eat again. For evidence of this, go to Petco and watch their SW fish, with sunken in bellies.
Yes it is mine to take when allowed by law, if you disagree with that, don't post here; it violates the TOS as defined in the sticky thread at the top of hunting forum.
Very few of the species of SW fish in stores are farm raised. If you understood the basics of the chain of distribution you would know this. I can't believe that you are the president of a website called reefsavers.org and do not know this. How can you possibly function effectively when you are so ill informed about issues so close to the reef. I will inform you of my ext collecting dive, you can be there, i will supply you will a cell phone, my name and pertinent information. Please then call the authorities, it will be nice to see them put you in your place as I finish my dive and pack my booty into my vehicle.

It is ashame that legitimate environmental efforts are minimized by a few fringe whackos armed with false information. Especially when those whackos claim to know information that isn't accurate.
 
A quick search of legitimate reef conservation organizations shows the claims you made are 180 degrees wrong
http://www.reefprotect.org/reef_crisis.htm
they point out the damage caused by commercial collection, the numbers that die in transport, etc.
Reef Protection International (RPI) is the sole organization entirely focused on addressing coral reef degradation caused by wild collection of coral reef species for the marine aquarium trade. RPI's efforts intentionally compliment the activities of other organizations to ensure the combined strategy of the coral reef conservation community is comprehensive and effective.

I a starting to think your organization is a sham, certainly not accurately informed at a minimum.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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