Coltri MCH-6/Max Air 35 Motor

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

I just realised that digital rpm meter on my gas powered M6ch is running off of the spark plug wire on the gas motor. So, with a (rough measurements) 3.5" pulley on the motor, and a 4.5" pulley on the compressor, I've actually been running the compressor at around 2200 RPM. Since I have read the manual and it doesn't mention this, I assume I am missing somthing?

Also, given my pulley configuration, it looks to me like if I were to go to and electric motor at 3450 rpm, that should put me pretty close to 2800 at the compressor. Again I think I must be missing something, because all of the information I have read about converting from gas to electric have indicated that you must change the pulley size.

Open for suggestions on what I might be missing here. That's usually the wife's job, but she's not real good with pulleys and rpm.

For a typical Gas/petrol Honda engine, this will rotate at 3600 RPM at full throttle.
Therefore with your 4.5" driven and 3.5 inch driver pulley combination you will achieve 2810 RPM at the compressor. Calculations exclude any belt slippage

Now change to a 2 pole electric motor USA 60Hz this runs at around your 3450 RPM Therefore with your 4.5" and 3.5" pulleys will now turn the pump at 2693 RPM

Now if you measured it at 2200 RPM with the same combo of pulleys then the petrol engine must have been throttled back, there is an adjustment screw on the throttle lever arm to do this
From calculation if you reduce the petrol engine throttle to 2818 RPM you will achieve 2200RPM at the pump.

Also be careful changing electric motors if you look at the Coltri SOGA motors they use American 60Hz windings but in a European 90 frame motor size. This is not the same frame size as an equivalent BHP Yankee motor

The slots on the baseplate also need to be measured to match the the correct motor frame mounting holes on the feet. Iain
 
For a typical Gas/petrol Honda engine, this will rotate at 3600 RPM at full throttle.
Therefore with your 4.5" driven and 3.5 inch driver pulley combination you will achieve 2810 RPM at the compressor. Calculations exclude any belt slippage

Now change to a 2 pole electric motor USA 60Hz this runs at around your 3450 RPM Therefore with your 4.5" and 3.5" pulleys will now turn the pump at 2693 RPM

Now if you measured it at 2200 RPM with the same combo of pulleys then the petrol engine must have been throttled back, there is an adjustment screw on the throttle lever arm to do this
From calculation if you reduce the petrol engine throttle to 2818 RPM you will achieve 2200RPM at the pump.

Also be careful changing electric motors if you look at the Coltri SOGA motors they use American 60Hz windings but in a European 90 frame motor size. This is not the same frame size as an equivalent BHP Yankee motor

The slots on the baseplate also need to be measured to match the the correct motor frame mounting holes on the feet. Iain

I thank you for your quick and informative reply. You are spot on; I have been throttling back the engine so that the rpm meter reads 2800. I generally just fill my own tanks, so the extra time has not been an issue for me. And throttling back helps keep the noise down. Just surprised that it never eally occurred to me before. When I'm filling tanks, I just set it for 2800 and kept busy with other chores, so I never really gave it much thought until I started looking into switching to electric.
 
Thanks all for this very informative post.
I'm going here on the opposite direction (from electric to gas) and have some questions about pulley size and rpms.

The compressor is a Max Air 35 and has a 4" pulley on it.
The new engine is a Honda GP200.

I got that the speed I want to be running this compressor is between 2400- 2800 rpm.

My question in sizing the pulley for the new engine is if I should aim for max engine speed (3600rpm) or max torque (2500rpm)?
i.e. between a 3" pulley running at full speed or a 4" pulley running much slower.

Of course running the gas engine slower would be much quieter on the boat, and maybe better on fuel.

Any helps appreciated.

Cheers
 
The biggest reason that the single phase motors are set up with a pulley to run a little slower than the three phase and the gasoline driven compressors is amperage. The single phase motors draw 29 amps for the 110 and 14 amps for the 220. The electrical guru in the shop said that both motors come from Italy with a start/stop switch that, in the case of the 110 would burn out at higher amperage and in the case of the 220 (which actually has a small motor starter built in) would not allow adding of an auto shutdown circuit.

If you are using your own motor and starter, then you can put as big of a motor as you wish! It isn't the horsepower that determines the compressor capacity ... it's the motor speed. Just put the proper pulley to end up driving the compressor at no faster than 2800 rpm (the speed for 100 L/min).
If you go from a 3hp electric motor to a 5hp motor of the same type & do not change pulley size, you will likely see little difference in the way it runs. You will also likely see little difference in the current draw.

The HP rating is a capacity rating. It indicates how much wattage of electricity can be put through the motor without it overheating. The real HP rating is actually the listed HP x SF (service factor) A 10 hp motor with a 1.15 service factor is actually an 11.5hp motor.

The amperage draw is related to the mechanical load (and something called slip that I'm not going to go into). If you take a motor with a proper size pulley for a particular load & you increase the pulley size, you will increase the mechanical torque load on the motor, increase slip, and increase current draw. This will overload the motor. You would need to go to a motor with a larger HP (or Kw) rating to prevent the overheat.

1 hp is about 3/4 of a Kw. The conversion between the two is that simple. Actually it's 0.746:1 if you want to be more exact.

If you change to a larger motor & a larger motor pulley, you will run the compressor faster. You may also overload the compressor mechanically & cause it to fail. I don't know the mechanical limits of this compressor.

3 phase motors tend to have better starting torque than single phase motors, which is probably why you will tend to see degraded performance for a single phase motor. I am going to guess that the 3ph version has a slightly bigger pulley than the single phase version. If you went to a larger hp single phase motor & left the pulley size the same as the 3ph version, you should see about the same performance as the 3ph version & about the same current draw (except for a short time at start up) as the original 1ph motor drew.

There are also issues with start up current, especially if you are running off of a generator. Starting load for an electric motor is normally calculated at 6 times nameplate current, for purposes of sizing the power supply. If you try to run a 2.2Kw motor off of a 3Kw generator, you may have starting issues. If it is an inverter generator, like the wonderful quality Honda briefcase generators, then you need to up-size even more. Traditional generators have greater start load tolerance than inverter generators do.

You may wonder why you are able to run a 13 amp motor of of a 15 amp outlet if starting current is really that high. The reason is that typical breakers in a house will allow high current for a short time without tripping. If you are running off fuses, then you need to have the right type. A fully loaded 13 amp motor will blow a 15 amp "one time" fuse. You need to use "motor start fuses" or "duel element" fuses or "time delay" fuses. These are all different names for similar classes of fuses. Actual fuse numbers vary from brand to brand.

Electric motors typically come in 2 pole, 4 pole & 6 pole. 4 pole is most common. 2 pole seems most common on small dive compressors. On 60 hz rated motors, 2, 4 & 6 pole translates to no-load rpm ratings of about 3600, 1800 & 1200. The nameplate RPM will usually be slightly less than these numbers & will represent RPM at a specific load. The difference here is also related to slip. If you go to a motor with a different number of poles, you will need to change your pulley size. The slower motors, with more poles, produce more torque at the lower RPM & will want a bigger pulley. A motor with a 1740 nameplate RPM is going to be a 4 pole. 1145RPM on the name plate is going to indicate 6 pole.

I have oversimplified a few things here for ease of description, but this should be good rule of thumb information to help the average layman start to understand motor selection.
 
Thanks all for this very informative post.
I'm going here on the opposite direction (from electric to gas)...
Can you guys maybe arrange a trade?
 

Back
Top Bottom