Cozumel Incident 9/4/11

[driftin' by]

My point is that safe diving to those depths requires planning for emergencies and having procedures in place in case those emergencies occur. Accidents do happen, and you have to plan for them.

Like my Pop used to always say: "Hope for the best but plan for the worst". BTW, he wasn't a diver either.

I don't condone diving beyond your training, preparation or skills and have from the beginning felt that this is what happened here. As John clearly illustrated here, a properly planned dive to this depth would have required much more coordination and effort... something I rarely hear about in Cozumel. Can you even get a trimix fill on the island? FWIW, I think bounce dives by recreational divers are ludicrous. I don't care how many dive you have, if you're not properly trained, knowledgeable and equipped, you're waiting for an accident to happen. I think it's easy for a lot of people that are lucky enough to work professionally in the industry at a top diving destination for any period of time think they've logged enough time at depth to the point that they believe they have mastered the seas or that everything outside of recreational limits are no different given the number of dives they have logged.

 

[BKP]

I seem to recall in one or two posts, specific to this accident, an implication that one diver went further down "after his boss/friend"? Would this not imply a down-welling that separated the three, and pushed them to different depths? Of course, everything in *this* thread is speculation until it's confirmed one way or the other, however, I've been in serious current, but never caught in a down-welling, so I'm not familiar with the dynamics...

- Can they actually pick up intensity mid-wall as the result, perhaps, of a perpendicular flow hitting the wall, or are they always the result of rolling off the top of the shelf?
- If the former is possible, is it possible to descend in calm water, directly into the flow, which might not have even begun until 80 or 100fsw down?
- I've seen references to extreme bounce dives, however, I'm not sure it's prudent to speculate about that at this point. It would appear to be just as feasible to have been caught in/run into a down-welling towards the end of a relatively deep, but common (100fsw), uneventful to this point, dive...

EDIT: names removed

 

[sinistar]

A question I have (w/r to this incident) to help me better understand diving in Cozumel is whether any of the divers were diving Nitrox when caught in the down current. And if so, did the divers using Nitrox actually experience 02 toxicity problems? I still believe in using EAN on dives but if I knew for certain that a quick depth excursion brought on an immediate O2 hit/problem I might think otherwise in Cozumel. I know two people who have been caught in down currents, both were able to keep above 150' and were fine afterwards but were freaked at the time (they were diving on air). I hear from time to time that diving nitrox in Cozumel is dangerous for this very reason yet I have never read any report where diving nitrox complicated a down current situation.

 

[DandyDon]

Let me offer this reminder for this thread since it is in A&I....

Special Rules for Accidents & Incidents Forum

The purpose of this forum is the promotion of safe diving through the examination and discussion of accidents and incidents; to find lessons we can apply to our own diving.
Accidents, and incidents that could easily have become accidents, can often be used to illustrate actions that lead to injury or death, and their discussion is essential to building lessons learned from which improved safety can flow. To foster the free exchange of information valuable to this process, the "manners" in this forum are much more tightly controlled than elsewhere on the board. In addition to the TOS:

(1) You may not release any names here, until after the names have appeared in the public domain (articles, news reports, sheriff's report etc.) The releasing report must be cited. Until such public release, the only name you may use in this forum is your own.
(2) Off topic posts will be removed and off topic comments will be edited.
(3) No flaming, name calling or otherwise attacking other posters. You may attack ideas; you may not attack people.
(4) No trolling; no blamestorming. Mishap analysis does not lay blame, it finds causes.
(5) No "condolences to the family" here. Please use our Passings Forum for these kinds of messages.
(6) If you are presenting information from a source other than your own eyes and ears, cite the source.
(7) If your post is your hypothesis, theory, or a "possible scenario," identify it as such.
(8) If your post is about legal action that concerns a mishap, use the Scuba Related Court Cases forum.

 

[Crush]

A question I have (w/r to this incident) to help me better understand diving in Cozumel is whether any of the divers were diving Nitrox when caught in the down current. And if so, did the divers using Nitrox actually experience 02 toxicity problems? I still believe in using EAN on dives but if I knew for certain that a quick depth excursion brought on an immediate O2 hit/problem I might think otherwise in Cozumel. I know two people who have been caught in down currents, both were able to keep above 150' and were fine afterwards but were freaked at the time (they were diving on air). I hear from time to time that diving nitrox in Cozumel is dangerous for this very reason yet I have never read any report where diving nitrox complicated a down current situation.

Oxygen toxicity has different regions/tissues where it manifests. However, unlike getting narc'd, Oxtox is not "essentially instantaneous."

 

[boulderjohn]

A number of years ago my DM on a dive at Cozumel refused to allow me to use nitrox for the first dive, citing this very reason.

The truth is, though, that an accidental drop in depth below recommended limits is not likely to cause a problem. You have to be at those depths a while to have a problem.

In this case, it was absolutely not an issue. If they had had a CNS O2 toxicity problem, we would know about it. It's a pretty serious event.

 

[Some X Dry]

This incident SCREAMS COMPLACENCY!! The words "more experienced divers than me" means there are 2 things you could learn from them. 1) Things that work well. 2) Things that DON'T. It's up to you too use the noodle between your ears to figure out which one they are displaying at any given moment. My theory is they have done these types of deep air dives many, many times and the odds had finally caught up to them. It would be my guess it was her air they shared upon ascent. If irresponsible deep air dives are taking place in Coz then shame on them. Their stupidity will hopefully bear some fruit in a lesson for others to learn. Too Bad it takes someone getting hurt or killed for those lessons to come up.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Sorry but "planned" and "deep bounce dive" do not go together for reasonable people. That is asking to get hurt. I've taken some chances that while maybe not suitable for most divers were within my comfort zone. Solo at 120 feet in 38 degree water at the bottom of Lake Erie but in doubles with a stage, I routinely do deep dives at one of our local sites alone to 115 or so, again with proper tech gear.

But not on a single tank. The lack of good judgment that would appear to be in evidence here is frankly disgusting and in no way the mark of any professional I'd want to be associated with. I;d like to know if in fact this was a planned deep bounce with single tanks whether 80's or even 100's. If so that makes it all the worse and I'm having a difficult time mustering sympathy. It would also seem that if these were just regular not so well known instructors like the ones that screwed the pooch on the Grove a few years ago, they would be damn near crucifed as those were for the stupidity of their actions. And for those new and newer divers reading this, rightly so.

Bad judgment, poor planning, not properly equipped, and inflated ego's (a prime cause of bounce dives) gets people hurt and often dead. There are a couple of them in Puget Sound and other places. Three people are in serious condition and some may yet die. It's likely they will all suffer permanent damage of some type. For what? Bragging rights, adrenalin rush, and god knows what other motivation. Accidents happen. That can't be changed. But is it really an accident when people set themselves up for something like this to happen?

What would have happened if one would have gotten caught on ledge and the other two surfaced? Someone would have NEEDLESSLY been put in a position to recover the other diver. Or to at least search for them. Thus endangering someone else. I've been to Cozumel once. It was where I decided I wanted to learn to scuba dive. But the more I read over the years on this board the less I want to go there. Bad judgment and what I consider to be unsafe practices by some ops and "professionals" more and more turn me away. I will not recommend it to any of my students.

 

[=C=]

I am curious if maybe one of them was carrying a stage? It would seem to explain how 3 divers got to the surface from 300 on what was most likely an AL80 at 10AtsA...

 

[sealkie]

3: The 3 survived the accident and skipped needed deco stops to barely make it to the surface, felt okay enough for the moment - then decided to change tanks and re-descend to 60 ft to inwater decompress, until some signs of DCS became evident and they abandoned that idea.

Is this information that came out in another post somewhere ? I did not read anything about them going back into the water

If they chose to do this I would wonder why - how far away was a chamber to make them think that in water recompression was a better option ? And to return to 60ft I wonder how much deco was missed - I would not expect an experienced diver to go back into the water unless they had missed significant stops and didn't feel they could reach a chamber in a reasonable amount of time