Cozumel Incident 9/4/11

[WSOPFAN]

The following is a quote from the other thread:

It is not rear when local locos go with air to more than 200-250 feet. Yes, so far we have not heard of them in accident news, but it had to happen sooner or later. Myself have been telling and warning those guys not to risk their lives, but…

Funny when I posted something very similar early on it was swiftly deleted. Apparently I am not the only one with previous FACTUAL knowledge of this type of known behavior that happens on Cozumel.

BTW I think he meant "It is not RARE"

 

[RubberDucky]

Follow the dive plan and the dive masters, monitor your depth and gas, and the dive will be just like any other beautiful Cozumel drift dive.

I've found this to mostly be true as well. However, I know several people who have been caught in/near/around those underwater "tornados" (I don't know the proper ocean term for this). One was one of the safest divemasters I know who was doing a dive with a student. Do not sleep on the ocean. While you may go your entire life diving in Coz without incident, wild and unpredictable currents do happen.

On that note, while currents played a part in the Scuba Mau incident, it is (and has been) my understanding that this particular issue is very unlikely to have affected your average vacationing diver in respect to the recreational dive limits. Take that as you will.

 

[cenotist]

Yes, it is not rare and sadly my typo does not change this fact...

 

[Ron G.]

One week prior to this incident, a 54 year old diver died during a routine vacation Cozumel dive:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/cozumel/395024-missing-divers.html

I was surprised be the lack of details regarding the fatality. I was expecting the Coz grapevine to yield details of what happened.

I'm not surprised that the folks involved in this new incident haven't made public what exactly happened to them.

Nevertheless, the combination of the two incidents does make me a bit nervous about diving in general and Coz diving in particular. (I'd recently decided that Coz was going to be my diving "home base". Was there last month and am going back next month.)

I understand that diving has some risks, but I've always thought that those risks were limited if I was careful. These two back-to-back disasters give me pause.

Ron

 

[boulderjohn]

Yes, it is not rare and sadly my typo does not change this fact...

I have heard similar stories.

In that other thread a described a typical planned dive to depths like that, using a profile from a relatively recent dive of my own. In it, I said I started that dive with about 400 cubic feet of gas--I didn't use it all, of course, but that is what I started with. I would like to add some details here that I did not include then because I did not think them relevant--now I do.

80 cubic feet of what I took was an AL 80 with 21/35. My plan was to use it to travel down to about 190 and then use it as my first deco gas on ascent. According to the plan, I should have used 42 cubic feet--about half of what I brought. I did not count on a ripping current upon splashing and having to swim into it for what seemed like forever until I reached the descent line. (One of my teammates aborted at that point.) I did not count on having to pull hard down the line in that current. Consequently, I drained that tank just as I was switching to the 70 foot bottle during the ascent--I used almost twice as much as planned. No problem though--I had planned plenty of reserve back gas I could have used if I had run out sooner, since I had planned to leave plenty in reserve. In fact, if my buddy had had a catastrophic gas loss, I could have taken care of him as well.

Another point was that while we were doing our decompression, a safety diver came down to visit us to make sure we did not have any additional gas needs.

Finally, we had an established protocol for signaling to the surface if we had trouble and needed help, and we had people on the surface who could help us in case we did.

My point is that safe diving to those depths requires planning for emergencies and having procedures in place in case those emergencies occur. Accidents do happen, and you have to plan for them.

 

[driftin' by]

What I mean about Barracuda is at the end the wall turns more flat and the current continues to follow the wall out to sea deeper and deeper and I am sure it goes past 300 ft if not 1000's.

Then I'm not sure that is the typical definition of a down current rather a typical current the just happens to be following the contour of the ocean floor as it gradually gets deeper. When I think of down current, I think of one the is moving vertical, instead of primarily along the x axis.

Btw John....they appear to have some very loyal customers and to preserve the reputation of the business going forward you might want to consider taking the diveshop name out of the title....maybe just list the date?? Just a thought.......

I don't agree often with you but I agree we should leave the shop's name out of it. I was surprised that Kevin's original thread contained the name and now there are about 5!

[*]The dive was not properly planned with attention to safety and redundancy, resulting in catastrophe; [/LIST]

This would be my guess.

Funny when I posted something very similar early on it was swiftly deleted.

Dude, Because THAT was not the place for speculation or dive analysis! This is, so have at it! I'm not sure that won't get deleted or moved here either. It's actually quite shocking that people over there are still posting A&I after John posted this is here. Just goes to show, people just don't listen(read) before speaking(banging away at the keyboard and their chests).

One week prior to this incident, a 54 year old diver died during a routine vacation Cozumel dive:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/cozumel/395024-missing-divers.html

I was surprised be the lack of details regarding the fatality. I was expecting the Coz grapevine to yield details of what happened.

Well you posted the link, it's obvious you didn't read it!?!?! First, It wasn't a week prior, it was the day before! Second, it's pretty clear that the diver ascended alone then re-submerged alone. He was alone and lost alone. Perhaps we should summons his spirit to get all the details? Please forgive me, I mean no disrespect to the departed but for the love of god, what else can we learn outside of an autopsy from an accident when someone was diving alone? If that is what you're wanting to know, he drowned.

EDIT/Correction: I typed drowned but my fingers don't always listen to my brain. He had a heart attack.

$hitty things happen all the time. What hurts worse is the timing of these two. In no way are either an indication that diving a particular location is unsafe. People have been diving in Cozumel for many, many years. Nothing has all of a sudden changed that should cause uneasiness to anyone.

 

[MMM]

Nevertheless, the combination of the two incidents does make me a bit nervous about diving in general and Coz diving in particular.

I understand that diving has some risks, but I've always thought that those risks were limited if I was careful. These two back-to-back disasters give me pause.

Ron

I live part-time in Coz and I think you don't need to pause. If you want to practice risky behaviours, some shops may indulge you (not the one I go out with) but none will drag you kicking and screaming to such depths. It's worth noting that this was not an "official" trip by the op but staff members and a friend out diving together. I'm not saying this condones the dive profile they did but it provides a bit of context to your concern about diving safety in Cozumel. The other death last week I can't provide any context on; it sounds to me like just plain inexperience on the part of the diver who died. He got separated from the group and who knows what happened after that.

I have some similar questions/concerns as Crush. These were all QUITE experienced divers. How did 3 divers end up breathing off one tank? They had to have been at quite a depth for quite a long time and not paying much attention to their air; as has been said many times on A&I threads, you can survive many things underwater but running out of air isn't one of them. One diver in the linked thread reported having hit a downcurrent. I have hundreds and hundreds of dives in Coz and have experienced a downcurrent once or perhaps twice. I think I was pulled about 20-30 feet before I swam out of it and it happened in the blink of an eye. It would seem that divers as experienced as these (most if not all of whom have greater experience than I) would easily manage a downcurrent and certainly would not have resulted in 2 of the 3 divers exhausting their air for something that happens in a matter of seconds. Logic dictates that something else occurred.

 

[DiveTheGalapagos]

Is it possible they were at depth when they got caught in a down current, thus the lack of planning? I don't know Cozumel and haven't dived there since about 1997, but in Galapagos, we definitely have some down currents that would fit the profile. Local fishermen (who know everything about the sea around them) call them 'azules'....blues. They say if you're caught in one, you're done. Of course, none of the locations where these would occur (open ocean currents hitting land mass) are designated dive sites, so most don't ever hear anything about them. Only one dive site that has been even listed as a dive site once killed divers. That site is not an official dive site. I've only gone there once over the years and now, with the new regulations, there are very few sites you can even dive here, so very unlikely to experience anything other than very mild down currents that you could fairly easily swim out of. Azules, and the thought of them, have always freaked me out a little.

I do remember when I did the Devil's Throat, it spits you out at about 125-140 ft. Can't imagine being spit out into a down current there. Any other spots like that? Or were they diving in the North. Has where they were diving been reported?

 

[DandyDon]

Btw John....they appear to have some very loyal customers and to preserve the reputation of the business going forward you might want to consider taking the diveshop name out of the title....maybe just list the date?? Just a thought.......

A good idea I think. Not to hid the fact which is not possible now anyway, but still - a worthy idea. After this much time, I think you will need to use the Report button to ask a Mod to change it, and the request will need to come from you.

Additionally, since no news stories are available, SB TOS prohibits using names in this discussion.

Yes, it is not rare and sadly my typo does not change this fact...

On the other hand, you can go back to that post and edit it for correction if you'd like. Such is possible for several hours after posting - other than titles.

One week prior to this incident, a 54 year old diver died during a routine vacation Cozumel dive:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/cozumel/395024-missing-divers.html

I was surprised be the lack of details regarding the fatality. I was expecting the Coz grapevine to yield details of what happened.

I'm not surprised that the folks involved in this new incident haven't made public what exactly happened to them.

Nevertheless, the combination of the two incidents does make me a bit nervous about diving in general and Coz diving in particular. (I'd recently decided that Coz was going to be my diving "home base". Was there last month and am going back next month.)

I understand that diving has some risks, but I've always thought that those risks were limited if I was careful. These two back-to-back disasters give me pause.

Ron

I think it was actually only the day before (see http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/accidents-incidents/395069-u-s-diver-dies-cozumel-marine-park.html) and it turned out to be an inwater heart attack. Here is the most recent news media story on that accident Professor dies while scuba diving - The Independent Florida Alligator: Campus and I think that viewing the professor's photo might make it more understandable.

Now, back to this accident...

I think that only one of the 3 divers involved is able to post here, maybe - as he was air lifted to NC for continued treatment, but I doubt that he will. I cannot find any news stories on the accident and I think the best we can come up with for discussion is second and third hand statements. Going with that tho if you will...

1: This was not a dive that hardly any customers would have been allowed on. It was a private dive by a dive Op owner, one of her DM's, and her BF - all of whom are far superior divers than most of us, especially me.

2: It was seemingly planned as a deep bounce dive, planned depth unknown to me, that went to hell when the lady got pulled down in a current and the two men followed to assist - maybe to 300 feet.

3: The 3 survived the accident and skipped needed deco stops to barely make it to the surface, felt okay enough for the moment - then decided to change tanks and re-descend to 60 ft to inwater decompress, until some signs of DCS became evident and they abandoned that idea.

 

[=C=]

The following is a quote from the other thread:

>It is not rear when local locos go with air to more than 200-250 feet. Yes, so far we have not heard of them in accident news, but it had to happen sooner or later. Myself have been telling and warning those guys not to >risk their lives, bu

Funny when I posted something very similar early on it was swiftly deleted. Apparently I am not the only one with previous FACTUAL knowledge of this type of known behavior that happens on Cozumel.

BTW I think he meant "It is not RARE"

Umm would hate for people to think this is a Coz issue; is in most places I vizit with great viz people push the limits. I have see this first hand in Egypt, Croatia, Italy, and Malta... Its not about the site, people push their limits. Who knows what happened here but everyone is alive so maybe we will actually learn something.

As for this down current theory, I have read about similar freak incidents and would not totally discount the possibility as other posts have, there have been a few tidal oddities over the past month. I am on the "its unlikely but possible" side of things.