Defective BCD in Confined Dive

[pmetz]

Smart choice on at least using your own regs. Lord knows when the last time the shop's regs were serviced. As for the BCD, I would tell the owner straight up "well if you had decent gear in proper working order, we wouldn't have to use own gear just to complete the course we paid for safely". As for when he questions you about where you got your gear I would tell him something along the lines of "I would have bought my gear from you, however, part of my purchasing decision is based on customer service, which includes classes, and faulty gear with no fix is bad customer service".
You mentioned before of using a bp/w.....I am not a confrontational type of person, but I would have brought it and used it especially if it was what I was going to dive in. I normally tell my students that if they are going to purchase gear, go ahead and use it. I would rather them learn in what they are intending on using so I could show them how to use it properly in class rather then have them try to figure it out themselves after. Its safer that way. The only time I would object to them using their gear is if it was not functioning properly or clearly needed service to dive safely

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

I just don't get this kind of lds.... My shop owner is more than happy to have students use their own gear. I can teach you how do dive in a bp/w just as easily as a vest or harness bcd. And then you aren't putting wear and tear on my stuff. Also, if I teach you in your equipment, and show you how to work and care for your equipment, you will be happier, you will dive more with me, you will take further classes with me, and you will start buying your further gear with me, out of loyalty built. It is a much better plan.
Hey, OP, I am glad that this has not put you off of diving. It really is an incredible gift, and there are some wonderful people you'll meet through this sport. Let us know the next page in the story...

 

[String]

One advantage of the regulation here i guess. All the kit has to be certified as safe to use by a qualified agent every 12 months. That includes all the student kit and the instructors own.

 

[TSandM]

I can understand, although not condone, the shop having a churlish attitude toward gear they didn't sell the student. Under the current model, classes are generally loss leaders, and the shop's profit from the student comes from selling him equipment. If the student buys equipment elsewhere, the shop has simply lost money on that student.

It's not the student's fault, though, and he shouldn't be the one to suffer for it. It's the fault of the model, which is flawed.

There is no excuse for rental equipment which isn't functioning properly, though. Stories like this really make me shake my head at scuba gear manufacturers -- One would think they would figure out that Velcro just doesn't last very long underwater!

 

[sixgears]

This is going to be longish so I might as well keep it in this thread.
My wife and I were rehashing this last night and could only come up with one conclusion of our own so feel free to draw your own conclusions at the end.

To answer someone's concern on the regulation part, I did have my equipment serviced and inspected by an authorized dealer of said equipment. This is not the LDS I'm taking classes with for the mere fact that they are not authorized Oceanic dealers. And since they were also a Dive Rite dealer I had them look at my Trans Pac II (bought used) just to be on the safe side. Before I used any of my own equipment I specifically asked the instructor if it was OK to use my own stuff because: a) my wife was having issues with the old big metal regulator not being very comfortable, and b) the decrepit BCD which now totals two. The instructor said he did not have a problem with it (but he wasn't the shop owner). My wife also told me last night that the BCD she was using was not the BCD that she used last week. The number of BCDs seem to be dwindling because another female student decided to buy her own (from said LDS) and used it for the class. I guess she was using the same one my wife used last night and also discovered the defect. This all seems to be looking very convenient. Meanwhile the old BCD that was assigned to me was still present waiting to be donned.

When my wife and I signed up for this class approximately 2 1/2 months ago we felt like we found the perfect place to do business with. It was family owned and had been in business for quite some time. They had the perfect schedule for us all the way until our check-out dives in the Caribbean. I bought my personal equipment from this LDS and was certainly looking at other stuff to buy. When it came time to buy a wetsuit they were the first ones I went to. I was in the store for about 2 hours trying on every wetsuit that seemed to be my size but to no avail. So I started to shop around elsewhere and found the perfect suit for me. I was under the assumption that comfort and fit was one of the most important aspects when it comes to scuba equipment specially for exposure protection so I didn't really care where I bought it.

My wife on the other hand did not buy from this LDS as a simple matter of convenience (and also price). She liked the wetsuit that I bought so she decided to match me. :blinking: While at the other LDS which is closer to our house she noticed that they had package deals for all personal equipment which also included the wetsuit. The price was very attractive since it also included a gear bag and was still below what I paid for the stuff I spent at the first LDS - no brainer right? No big deal since we were told that we needed our own stuff anyway.

Weeks pass by and I'm amassing my knowledge by reading through all of SB .
I saw a couple of deals for regulators and decided to jump on it. Also saw the Trans Pac on here so decided to jump on that too. I had no intentions of ever using this stuff for class since we were assured that we would be outfitted with equipment that, although not the sexiest, would work just fine. Again, no brainer.

Approximately a week before class I get a voicemail from the shop owner concerning my wife not having her personal stuff yet. I guess they keep records of students and how much stuff they buy at the store. So I let it go knowing that my wife was all set. A day before the class I get an email from the shop owner that classes will be starting tomorrow and not everyone had their personal equipment. Again I took in stride because we were all set. The day of the class and I get another phone message this time sounding a bit frantic. And I quote, "If your wife is having issues buying her personal equipment maybe we can make some sort of an arrangement ... ".

The classes began that evening and we were psyched. Classroom - no problem. Confined dive - all equipment was setup for us and was floating in the pool. I got handed my stuff and was paired with someone else in class - no big deal. My wife was paired with the other female. This is where the problems with the BCD started where it would come off during a skill. I just rolled with it and concentrated on the task at hand but certainly voiced my concern to the instructors. After each class my wife and I would debrief each other and compare notes. The first thing she said was that the regulator she was using was uncomfortable and was straining her jaws. I also told her about my BCD episode. This was when I decided to use our own regulators. My wife even bought a new mouthpiece for hers just to make it her own.

Second confined dive comes along and the same thing was happening to my BCD specially during the giant stride portion. Again I just decided to roll with it and check on my wife who was now comfortably kneeling (and breathing) in 12 feet of water and also trying to help her buddy who couldn't get neutral and seemed to always be positive. This time around was much better than the first confined dive and, except for the BCD issue, was non-eventful.

Now we all know what happened last night during the 3rd confined dive. Again, I was nicely trimmed out (except for a few rolling moments with the Trans Pac on). Buoyancy was fine for me and even able to hover quite a bit. As expected my wife was having a bit of trouble because she was trying to get used to this "new" BCD that she was wearing. I told her to just suck it up (pardon the pun) for now. All in all it was a good session.

My wife and I were rehashing the evening specially the part when the LDS owner approached me and said that there was an issue with the equipment that I had on and I need to call them today to discuss it. I'm willing to bet that they have an issue with not so much what my wife and I were using, but the manner in which it was acquired namely NOT IN THEIR SHOP! The other BIG lingering issue now is when the classes finally started we were handed an orientation sheet that outlined what the class was about, who the instructors were, etc. The document also stated that the price for the class was $XXX.XX and in parentheses if equipment bought from said LDS, otherwise the price was $XXX.XX which was roughly twice the first amount. In the 2 1/2 months since we signed up for class this was the first time that my wife and I have seen this document nor were we even notified that this policy existed. When we were signing up for the class (at the first $ amount) the salesperson told us that they were basically not making $ from the class (which I believe) and it would be nice for them to earn our business on future equipment purchases. I think that's a fair statement but my wife and I were never told nor is it in any of the initial paperwork that we received, that the amount was different if we did not buy equipment from them. In the car business I believe people call that a bait and switch.

So today I'm going to have a little chat with our friend the LDS owner and discuss with them all the issues faced so far. I know they're going to turn at me and say that what I'm doing is unsafe and they can't teach me blah blah blah. If it boils down to that my wife and I may have to pull out and get our money back. The question is can I continue my OW class elsewhere and just pick up where we left off or do we start everything all over again. I was telling my wife last night that if another place was willing, heck, I'll take the quizzes and skills all over again if we have to.

The adventure continues. And no, this experience has not soured our taste buds for diving yet. Keep the handy there's more to come.

 

[Sinbad the Diver]

That all sounds rather swarmy, to the point of being false advertising and fraud. In this document you were handed, did it specify what equipment you had to buy? If I would have had to have bought my BC, Reg and Comp from the shop I did my OW at I would have saved serious money by paying twice as much as I did for the class. If it is not specific buy a snorkle and tell the guy pound sand.

 

[ScubaSteve]

After reading this, I am afraid for you. This place actually sounds worse than my LDS which I though had taken the cake. Sorry but I ate the cake already . It went good with the I ate reading your thread here.

You are being scammed with this form that says $x under these conditions and $x under those conditions. If you paid $x and they are now trying to change it out of spite they can float a rope. If you knew this before hand and chose to ignore it, then they are in the right (even if they are wrong). My advice is as long as they do not try to screw you over the price, finish your training there, get your referral and RUN FORREST!!! Get out and do not look back. This is the type of LDS that makes everything painful. Diving is supposed to be fun and not painful.

 

[TSandM]

Well, I have a different reaction to the contract thing. Yes, I think the salesman you originally talked to should have brought that up and made it clear. BUT -- You arrived and you signed the piece of paper, and I think after that, you are really obligated to pay the price. If you didn't read it, that was a mistake, but not the shop's. I realize that, having arranged the class a couple of months ahead of time, you might be angry and reluctant to back out and have to wait again somewhere else, but the bottom line is that you signed the contract BEFORE you got the instruction, so I think you pay and then go elsewhere if you want to.

It is not uncommon for shops to price things that way -- It's how they protect themselves from losing too much money on a student who doesn't end up buying equipment from them. The shop where I got trained originally is pretty up front about it; the price is contingent on you buying your "personal gear" from that shop.

 

[MX727]

Why would anyone buy gear from a shop that can't maintain their own rental gear? That is the question you need to ask the owner.

Which agency is this shop affiliated with? As soon as you are done and get your referral or if they give you the slightest bit of grief and try to raise the price at this point, contact the agency and let them know everything that has transpired. This isn't right and is no way to do business. It is also no way to engender more divers to the sport.

 

[sporket]

I would look elsewhere to train also. If they cut corners there, where else are they going to skimp on?