DIR-F Needs Long Primary

[Chris Sawallich]

Also, in open water, what would the long hose get caught on? Coral? Ship wreck? Once the OOA buddy has air, the emergency is over and things should be back to normal, including propery bouyancy control and trim. This also helps to avoid obstacles... [/QUOTE]



Ok... I agree with the 7ft hose theory.. actually just went that way myself, and am very impressed with the quickness I can give my buddy air. But explain to me boyancy when my buddy is OOA. If we are at the bottom and his or her BCD is empty.. what next??

 

[mer]

Also, in open water, what would the long hose get caught on? Coral? Ship wreck? Once the OOA buddy has air, the emergency is over and things should be back to normal, including propery bouyancy control and trim. This also helps to avoid obstacles...

Ok... I agree with the 7ft hose theory.. actually just went that way myself, and am very impressed with the quickness I can give my buddy air. But explain to me boyancy when my buddy is OOA. If we are at the bottom and his or her BCD is empty.. what next??

If you are at the bottom with no gas in the BC, you are either severly underweighted or severly negative. Typically, a properly weighted diver will have gas in thier BC on the bottom. As you go up, you vent. So no worries about your buddy being OOG and controlling buoyancy, as you won't need to add gas.

 

[mweitz]

You can certainly do a thirds dive in OW ...

Mark

I understand the DIR-F course is to make better divers (some say what OW/AOW left out) and also as a starting point to get into Cave and Tech diving. It is also my understanding that even if you don't intend to go Tech/Cave you will benefit from the class. I know one of the dead giveaways of a DIR diver is the octo around their neck. I understand why it is there and am warming up to the reason though it goes against what some of us are taught but I digress.

The other tell tale sign is the primary second stage on a 7 foot hose. I fully understand why you need it for in caves and other overhead environments makes perfect sense and is a excellent idea.

Now to the question, on the GUE website the DIR-F course (http://www.gue.com/classroom/dirfund.shtml) under Course Limits states "No overhead environment diving" Further down on the same page under Equipment Requirements it states "One of the second-stages must be on a 5- to 7-foot/1.5- to 2-meter hose." If there is no over head environment then why the long hose? If I misread then please excuse me but it looks like this is used for open water too. In open water does it serve a purpose too?

Thanks

 

[jonnythan]

Hey UnixSage.. if you're near Philly I can meet you down at Dutch Springs one weekend to show you the system if you're interested. I even have a spare Halcyon Pioneer and should have a complete long hose reg setup you're welcome to borrow to try out.

(I'm so desperate for dive buddies, being in waterless Albany, I'm basically giving gear away just to find someone to dive with )

Also, to echo a few others here, the long hose plus bungeed backup is *not* a strictly DIR thing. Tons of divers who are not DIR use the same setup.

 

[Snowbear]

I understand the DIR-F course is to make better divers (some say what OW/AOW left out) and also as a starting point to get into Cave and Tech diving. It is also my understanding that even if you don't intend to go Tech/Cave you will benefit from the class. I know one of the dead giveaways of a DIR diver is the octo around their neck. I understand why it is there and am warming up to the reason though it goes against what some of us are taught but I digress.

Actually, the DIR-f course isn't what makes the better divers.... at least not by itself. What it does do is gives you the principals of DIR and an introduction to how to apply them to make yourself a better diver. Another huge benefit to me when I took the class was I got to ask, "Why?" a lot. Most of the time I didn't have to ask as the explanations were often provided as part of the lectures, but even so, I'm one who tends to question everything and when possible, know why something is a better way. Watching yourself on video is also a very beneficial way to improve. You get to see what you looked like and how it often doesn't look anything like what you thought it felt like (especially trim :11: )

The other tell tale sign is the primary second stage on a 7 foot hose. I fully understand why you need it for in caves and other overhead environments makes perfect sense and is a excellent idea.

the long hose does not necessarily mean a DIR-f grad I was one of many folks who was using a long hose before I even considered the DIR route....

In open water does it serve a purpose too?

Most definitely, but the answer to this has already been provided much better than I ever could

 

[lairdb]

Also, in open water, what would the long hose get caught on? Coral? Ship wreck? Once the OOA buddy has air, the emergency is over and things should be back to normal, including propery bouyancy control and trim. This also helps to avoid obstacles...

Errr, kelp, monofilament, steel leader, steel line, pilings, mooring lines, buoy chain.... Agreed in principle, but still: just because y'all cavers are quite so ne plus ultra doesn't mean open water is completely without hazards.

 

[Jason B]

Errr, kelp, monofilament, steel leader, steel line, pilings, mooring lines, buoy chain.... Agreed in principle, but still: just because y'all cavers are quite so ne plus ultra doesn't mean open water is completely without hazards.

The long hose is routed in such a way that it does not create this entanglement problem that you want to claim it has. It is very stream line unlike a conventional hose.

 

[mikkilj]

Errr, kelp, monofilament, steel leader, steel line, pilings, mooring lines, buoy chain.... Agreed in principle, but still: just because y'all cavers are quite so ne plus ultra doesn't mean open water is completely without hazards.

Well, first, I'm not a caver .

Since the long hose is quite long, the donor and OOA buddy are able to actually swim in a single-file line, instead of side by side. So, instead of going on either side of an obstacle, anywhere diver #1 goes should be just as clear/safe for swimming through as diver #2. If the hose *did* happen to snag on something, I'm sure both divers would quickly realize it and it could be corrected by one of the divers swimming back out from around the object the hose is caught on.

In other words, if the long hose can work in cave/wreck situations where there are lots of obstacles and things to snag on, surely it will be just as good (if not better) in OW where there are typically fewer obstacles...

 

[lairdb]

The long hose is routed in such a way that it does not create this entanglement problem that you want to claim it has. It is very stream line unlike a conventional hose.

Rearrange your cotton: UnixSage was talking about while deployed, not while stowed.

[...]as a entanglement hazard when deployed.

 

[darkpup]

If you are at the bottom with no gas in the BC, you are either severly underweighted or severly negative. Typically, a properly weighted diver will have gas in thier BC on the bottom. As you go up, you vent. So no worries about your buddy being OOG and controlling buoyancy, as you won't need to add gas.

To add just a bit to Mer's comment, don't forget that you can always orally inflate your BC / wing. I practice OOG ascents with my back gas for inflation, and with oral inflation for when my back gas is completely gone. Both work great, and once you attain neutral buoyancy at depth, it's just a matter of letting out gas slowly as you ascend. Quite easy with practice.

~ Jason