Dive Computer or Tables and console?

[Uncle Pug]

TX101 and Andy (and everyone else)

Ya'll think it boils down to dive comptuer vs tables.

It doesn't... there is another way. A method that takes into account much more than tables. A method that adjusts the dive to fit the conditions including the pre-conditions.

But to use this method one must have a Thinking Brain and of course computers rot your brain. Many times here on Scuba Board I have seen folks say, in essence: *I let the computer do the thinking for me.*

My suggestion to beginners is that they learn to pay attention to making their dives conform to what they want them to be regarding depth and time. In the beginning tables will give you the rough guidline as to depth vs time allowed.

I also encourage them to use their gas supply wisely and make sure they have enough to include a shallow portion at the end of the dive. And I encourage all of you to think about your dive before during and after. Take control of your dive before, during and after.

The pessimist in me doesn't want to waste time with those who are no longer beginners but have already suffered chronic computer induce intracranial necrosis and subsequent ossification.

However the optimist in me can't help but hope.

 

[Jason B]

there is another way. A method that takes into account much more than tables. A method that adjusts the dive to fit the conditions including the pre-conditions.

okay, we're listening. What is this method, please enlighten us on it instead of bashing us for doing what we were taught. The main problem with this and any other board is that everyone is waiting to jump on you and tell you how wrong you are without every telling what is right. So enlighten us on this "simple to calculate in the head" method old wise one. Please don't leave us hanging.

 

[Uncle Pug]

Actually... I have already given the basics of several methods in other threads on this board. They are there in the archives for those who will look for them.

In this thread, as it happens to be in the New2Scuba forum, I don't think it would be prudent for me to go further than I already have in attempting to explain that a dive computer is not only unnecessary but that a better approach is to begin and continue as a thinking diver.

 

[BigJetDriver]

.. And that exact same argument can be applied to the tables. After all, the computer algorithms are just derived from the tables.

However when I go to the red sea in September, I'll be relying 100% on my Nitek3.

TX101,

I NEVER thought that I would be arguing a concept on behalf of the Most Ancient and Honourable Uncle Pug, yet, here we are!

Tovarisch Pug has at least two basic philosophical problems with computer usage.

First, over-reliance or over-dependence on a wet computer (or any computer, for that matter) will, in fact, rot your brain. You have to know what the output "should" look like, rather than just blindly accepting the numbers on your wrist. This requires a lot of knowledge about how and why the algorithm works.

Second, this leads to basic questions about the algorithm itself. If one studies the development of the various decompression theories, both historic and modern, one realizes that there are a lot of vagaries in the systems, which are taken care of with what are engagingly known as "tweaks". Since this word is alarmingly close to the word "twitch", which is what you will be doing if the "tweak" is wrong, I would have to say that such things are not truly confidence builders!

Do I think you should NOT use a computer? If you have read my previous posts, you will know that, unlike the Luddites, I think you SHOULD use one.

You MUST understand the algorithm on which it is based. You MUST know how to use the tables of its printed format, and have them with you in your pocket as a back-up. You MUST have a back-up depth gauge and bottom timer to be able to use those back-up tables. (----And, yes---Dear God help me for saying this---your BACK-UP can be an older, simpler computer which you have limited---I refuse to use the "C" word, Pug---to showing bottom time and depth---)

What I have just said will inevitably lead the members of the "Amish Diving Society" to hoo-ha and bellow. Their retort will no doubt be that we should just skip the whole thing and go back to the Stone Age basics.

The answer to that is simply: "No!" Our founder and mentor, Tom Mount requires us to develop "Thinking Divers". (I am an IT for IANTD.) To do so, we do not have to deny our students the use of tools, but we have to make sure that they can use them intelligently.

A good computer is a wonderful tool. Like any sharp-edged tool, however, you have to know how to use it properly. As long as you do, it will increase your performance.

As Mr. Natural always said: "Get the right tool for the job, kids!"

:doctor:

 

[BigJetDriver]

I guess you were typing while I was composing my message. I hope I have stated your thinking accurately.

We come at the ideal of developing "THINKING DIVERS" from different ends of the spectrum, but our aim is none-the-less the same!

Cheers!

 

[StrikeEagle29]

Thank you all for your suggestions.

I plan on achieving my AOW and then turning up my dive tempo at the Newport Aquarium in Newport, KY. It looks like most of my dives are going to be in a 385,000 gallon sea tank with depths of up to 40 feet. I suspect we will be doing mostly tank maintenance and fish observation.

However I am really interested in getting myself into some wreck diving off the North Carolina coast and in Door County, Wisconsin as well. I won't even think about this until I get really comfortable with my abilities and get a feel for what my limits are. I do plan on including wreck diving as one of my 3 optionals for the AOW certification.

My original plan was to stick with tables in the tank until I got comfortable enough using them exclusively. I then thought that I would, at this time, purchase a computer and get proficient with it as well before attempting any wreck dives with a buddy. Is this plan foolhardy for a fresh AOW recipient?

To my knowledge, the Aquarium does not require its volunteer divers to use a dive computer.

As always, your wealth of knowledge is appreciated.

 

[H2Andy]

My original plan was to stick with tables in the tank until I got comfortable enough using them exclusively. I then thought that I would, at this time, purchase a computer and get proficient with it as well before attempting any wreck dives with a buddy. Is this plan foolhardy for a fresh AOW recipient?

not at all, except that i would suggest you get
comfortable with diving deep in stages (60-80, 80-100, 100-130 feet) before doing any serious deep dives, and that you definetely get overhead training (cave/wreck) before attempting any penetration.

 

[BigJetDriver]

TX101 and Andy (and everyone else)

Ya'll think it boils down to dive comptuer vs tables.

It doesn't... there is another way. A method that takes into account much more than tables. A method that adjusts the dive to fit the conditions including the pre-conditions.

But to use this method one must have a Thinking Brain and of course computers rot your brain. Many times here on Scuba Board I have seen folks say, in essence: *I let the computer do the thinking for me.*

My suggestion to beginners is that they learn to pay attention to making their dives conform to what they want them to be regarding depth and time. In the beginning tables will give you the rough guideline as to depth vs time allowed.

I also encourage them to use their gas supply wisely and make sure they have enough to include a shallow portion at the end of the dive. And I encourage all of you to think about your dive before during and after. Take control of your dive before, during and after.

The pessimist in me doesn't want to waste time with those who are no longer beginners but have already suffered chronic computer induced intracranial necrosis and subsequent ossification.

However the optimist in me can't help but hope.

I agree with everything that the Most Ancient and Honourable Uncle Pug has said above, with, of course, one exception.

Computers do NOT rot your brain!!! Blind dependence on computers, on the other hand, while putting your brain in "PARK" will, in fact, cause brain rot!

"Chronic computer induced intracranial necrosis and subsequent ossification." In other words, CCIINASO. I love it! ROFLMAO

 

[BigJetDriver]

My original plan was to stick with tables in the tank until I got comfortable enough using them exclusively. I then thought that I would, at this time, purchase a computer and get proficient with it as well before attempting any wreck dives with a buddy. Is this plan foolhardy for a fresh AOW recipient?

not at all, except that i would suggest you get
comfortable with diving deep in stages (60-80, 80-100, 100-130 feet) before doing any serious deep dives, and that you definetely get overhead training (cave/wreck) before attempting any penetration.

AMEN TO THAT, BROTHA (SORRY, I MEANT MUTHA) GATOR!!

 

[Uncle Pug]

a 385,000 gallon sea tank with depths of up to 40 feet.

To my knowledge, the Aquarium does not require its volunteer divers to use a dive computer.

It wouldn't surprise me if they did given the level of comprehension evident in todays diving community.

Saw a fella last month dutifully strap on his dive computer to make a 4' X 4 minute dive to pull a chunk of wood out of a jet boat intake. Interestingly enough he was also decked out in a techy looking out fit and wearing a 13cf argon suit inflation bottle. And no snorkle!

Now here is a case where I would have pulled one of the snorkles I have nailed to the garage wall and used that for the job instead of bother to gear up with a scuba rig.