Dive incident in Cozumel March 27, 2015

[cvchief]

There are some who argue that dive boats should carry AEDs. I don't expect such on boats any more than I expect them on hiking trails, etc.

I wouldn't be surprised that comes along. Figure you got at least $500 in set of CO and Nitrox tank analyzers? For 1000 more or less you could get into an AED.

 

[Wookie]

If I read the article right, which is challenging with google translation: Google Translate

They were going to try to transport her back to Canada? Seems odd that they'd want to bypass Houston with its overwhelming medical facilities. One of the important aspects of keeping DAN dive insurance - to fly the patient to the best. Some Canadian divers have said they don't need DAN at home, but do abroad.

There are some who argue that dive boats should carry AEDs. I don't expect such on boats any more than I expect them on hiking trails, etc.

I'll make that argument. Fewer than 5% of SCA victims survive with CPR alone. That figure increases to 85% if an AED is available and used. Hiking trails? Ok, I don't expect them on hiking trails, but I expect them on boats as often as I expect oxygen on boats, in fact, an AED is far more useful than a bottle of O2 IMHO.

 

[KathyV]

I think it makes sense to post a query for information about a Cozumel incident in the Cozumel forum and I appreciate the efforts of fellow divers to keep us informed and help us to learn and stay healthy and safe.

What have I learned from this incident? Well, I am an older female recreational diver and I am going to get checked out by my doctor before I go diving again to make sure my heart is healthy. I am also going to make sure that our DAN insurance coverage provides the level of protection that may be needed in a similar situation.

 

[mstevens]

We were passing the Aldora pier as they were moving a stretcher into an ambulance and wondered what had happened.

I have to agree that, based on previous threads, discussions about Cozumel incidents typically move swiftly to rampant speculation that is at times pretty insensitive.

 

[descent]

... discussions about Cozumel incidents typically move swiftly to rampant speculation that is at times pretty insensitive.

Yes, it gets pretty unpleasant.

It's not a bad thing to start the conversation here in the Cozumel sub-forum.

If people become harsh or unkind, a mod could move this thread to the A&I sub-forum, where new rules might stop the bickering from getting out of control.

This thread probably belongs in the A&I sub-forum anyway, but I am in no hurry to see it moved. Many SB users read and post in this forum that do not participate in A&I. I am curious to hear what they have to say.

 

[diversteve]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Moved to the A&I forum. Edited for content to fit within the guidelines there.

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[MMM]

I'll make that argument. Fewer than 5% of SCA victims survive with CPR alone. That figure increases to 85% if an AED is available and used. Hiking trails? Ok, I don't expect them on hiking trails, but I expect them on boats as often as I expect oxygen on boats, in fact, an AED is far more useful than a bottle of O2 IMHO.

How well do you find AEDs on a boat stand up with exposure to high humidity/salt air etc? I wonder about that after I have seen what happened to my nitrox analyzer, cell phone, rechargeable dive light, and digital kitchen scale that I have left at my home in Cozumel.

 

[DandyDon]

I got a google-alert on this incident as it was being discussed on TripAdvisor - as a snorkeling event, since that's how the google translate article reads. I believe it was a scuba indecent tho.

I'll make that argument. Fewer than 5% of SCA victims survive with CPR alone. That figure increases to 85% if an AED is available and used. Hiking trails? Ok, I don't expect them on hiking trails, but I expect them on boats as often as I expect oxygen on boats, in fact, an AED is far more useful than a bottle of O2 IMHO.

Sudden Cardiac Arrest? Well, that'd be another 3 pounds I could throw in my backpack I suppose, along with my PLB. One wouldn't help with a heart attack, typically known as a myocardial infarction (MI). would it...?

What have I learned from this incident? Well, I am an older female recreational diver and I am going to get checked out by my doctor before I go diving again to make sure my heart is healthy. I am also going to make sure that our DAN insurance coverage provides the level of protection that may be needed in a similar situation.

Your DAN membership will provide medical air evacuation to a more suitable facility, but this must be arranged thru DAN. DAN dive insurance probably wouldn't pay much for either a SCA or MI as those are medical events. Some trip insurance plans will, the main reason I take trip insurance when I leave the country, as my medical plan does not cover me outside of the US.

Some would argue that this was not a diving accident, but I don't know how many SCAs and MIs happen possibly because of extra challenges perhaps brought on by scuba diving?

Excerpting from Bad Request

While both cause serious problems and possible death, SCA often occurs abruptly and without warning. In fact, two-thirds of SCA deaths occur without any prior indications of heart disease, while heart attacks often have previous signs and symptoms.

SCArisk.org

The SCA Risk Assessment is an interactive tool designed to help individuals estimate their risk of sudden cardiac arrest (SCA), a common cardiac arrhythmia that can occur abruptly and without warning. In fact, two-thirds of SCA deaths occur without any prior indications of heart disease. SCA can happen to people of all ages and health conditions.

Learn your risk by using this online tool! It’s fast and easy — simply answer a few questions regarding your health and get your results. After you have finished using the SCA Risk Assessment, please consult with your physician regarding your results.

 

[kwinter]

I would be extremely reluctant to use an AED on a wet boat. Maybe the Spree is big enough by getting someone into a rack. But the dive boats we are talking about in Coz would have everyone tingling.

 

[uncfnp]

I would be extremely reluctant to use an AED on a wet boat. Maybe the Spree is big enough by getting someone into a rack. But the dive boats we are talking about in Coz would have everyone tingling.

Interesting question. I found this...

[h=1]The safe use of automated external defibrillators in a wet environment.[/h]Lyster T1, Jorgenson D, Morgan C.
[h=3]Author information[/h]

[h=3]Abstract[/h]There has been concern regarding potential shock hazards for rescuers or bystanders when a defibrillator is used in a wet environment and the recommended safety procedure, moving the patient to a dry area, is not followed.
[h=4]OBJECTIVE:[/h]To measure the electrical potentials associated with the use of an automated external defibrillator (AED) in a realistically modeled wet environment.
[h=4]METHODS:[/h]A raw processed turkey was used as a patient surrogate. The turkey was placed on a cement floor while pool water was applied to the surrounding area. To simulate a rescuer or bystander in the vicinity of a patient, a custom sense probe was constructed. Defibrillation shocks were delivered to the turkey and the probe was used to measure the voltage an operator/bystander would receive at different points surrounding the surrogate. The test was repeated with salt water.
[h=4]RESULTS:[/h]The maximum voltage occurred approximately 15 cm from the simulated patient and measured 14 V peak (current 14 mA peak) in the case of pool water, and 30 V peak (current 30 mA peak) in the case of salt water.
[h=4]CONCLUSIONS:[/h]Thirty volts may result in some minor sensation by the operator or bystander, but is considered unlikely to be hazardous under these circumstances. The maximum currents were lower than allowed by safety standards. Although defibrillation in a wet environment is not recommended practice, our simulation of a patient and a rescuer/bystander in a wet environment did not show significant risk should circumstances demand it.