Dive shop accident statistics

[jepuskar]

I understand that, but why can't they provide something like..

Over a period of 3 years, we made 3000 boat dive trips from our dock. Out of these 3000 boat dive trips, and average of 60,000 dives were made. Figured out as 10 divers on each boat trip, each doing two dives. 20 dives a day x 3000 trips = 60,000 dives.

Out of these 60,000 dives, 5 divers suffered DCI, 1 fatality, etc etc.

I think that is fair...nobody said it had to put blame on the dive shop. Hell, no dive operation can prevent every accident.

 

[MikeFerrara]

jepuskar once bubbled...
I understand that, but why can't they provide something like..

Over a period of 3 years, we made 3000 boat dive trips from our dock. Out of these 3000 boat dive trips, and average of 60,000 dives were made. Figured out as 10 divers on each boat trip, each doing two dives. 20 dives a day x 3000 trips = 60,000 dives.

Out of these 60,000 dives, 5 divers suffered DCI, 1 fatality, etc etc.

I think that is fair...nobody said it had to put blame on the dive shop. Hell, no dive operation can prevent every accident.

Who is they and what would that info tell you? If divers get bent it's their own fault and doesn't mean your chances of getting bent are greater. Unless they leave someone at sea my guess would be that a fatality is also the fault of the diver. It seems to me that all this info would tell you is that they might be guilty of taking on stupid divers. What am I missing?

 

[jepuskar]

My post was done right after yours..i didnt see your last post as i was posting it at the same time.

I agree with you, your responsible for yourself, not the boat or divemasters.

 

[MikeFerrara]

jepuskar once bubbled...
My post was done right after yours..i didnt see your last post as i was posting it at the same time.

I agree with you, your responsible for yourself, not the boat or divemasters.

That makes sense. I don't know if I helped or not but that's the best I can come up with.

I try to get students to ask those questions in researching charters but I doubt many actually do.

 

[DivePartner1]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
You could always dive with them a statistically significant number of times and count how many accidents you have. You could then statistically infer how many accidents they probably had in the past over a given period.

You must be an actuary at heart.

Seriously, even checking PADI incident reports may not be that informative. Not all incidents are a dive shops fault. Or you might do a docket check for suits against an LDS in several local counties and it's federal district. But, again, this could might not be informative and a shop showing up too often may disappear--too much trouble getting insurance. And all would be dated--nothing valuable is likely to be current.

I don't think there's a way to get to meaningful data on dive shops at present, but there might be in the future.

In PADI's excercise in self-immolation styled as PADI vs. Diverlink, I expect that the experienced trial lawyer representing Diverlink to demand these incident reports in discovery. It's fair game since safety is at issue. The wisdom of avoiding the need to hand over this road map to future claims would motivate most rational businesses to quietly resolve the claim, but there seems to be some kind of ego-driven madness that plagues the 'dive industry' (DAN's recent troubles, e.g.).

Who knows: whatever comes out in that case may be published, but even then it would be too dated for current value to anyone who is not suing LDSs. But if I were a PADI affiliate, I would be really annoyed with them.

 

[DiverBuoy]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...


That makes sense. I don't know if I helped or not but that's the best I can come up with.

I try to get students to ask those questions in researching charters but I doubt many actually do.

Mike Ferrara I'm curious why you do this?

 

[jepuskar]

PADI gave me a response. Not exactly what I was looking for, but they DID give me this....it is readily available on their site, so I see nothing wrong with posting this here. This is good info to have:

http://www.padi.com/english/common/courses/qm/report.asp

 

[ckharlan66]

That is a good link to have. Thanks for sharing it.

Chad

 

[MikeFerrara]

DiverBuoy once bubbled...


Mike Ferrara I'm curious why you do this?

I suggest student ask these questions (and some others) before diving with a charter. Are you asking why I tell them to do this? I do it because having emergency equipment, knowing how to use it and having plans in place to respond are part of DIVE PLANNING. If you chose to pay someone to take care of these important details for you I think it's best to have a clear understanding of what your paying them for and what your getting.

IMO divers rely to much on others to plan their dives. They just assume that because the boat stoped here it's a good place for them to dive. They assume the crew is trained and is prepared to handle an emergency. Every year several divers get left at sea. Shame on them for not looking into the boats accounting system before the dive.

They can leave without you. Make sure whoever you go out with has a diver accounting system and uses it.

They can take you to sites that are beyond your abilities. Make sure you get a good (include the info you need to make a go/nogo decission) briefing and make good decissions for yourself.

They could give you bad air (I guess) Ask to see their air test data and look at the compressor. Make sure there are filters.

Ask about the crews qualifications. In this country a captain has to be a captain. Elsewhere? Find out if the DM is a DM or if he is just the Captains brother inlaw.

Make sure they have the right emergency equipment O2, radio, first aid supplies ect. Make sure the crew is trained in it's use.

Did I answer tour question?

 

[Drew Sailbum]

Anything that is a noteworthy "incident" that our staff witnesses and/or responds to gets an incident report.

Woman has a heart attack on the beach - that gets a report.

Man snorkeling off the beach gets has a panic attack and we pull him from the water - that gets a report.

Diver swims away from the wall toward blue water. Diver doesn't control buoyancy and staff member drops from 15ft safety stop and catches her at 178ft. That gets a report.

Diver complains of numbness and tingling in hand after completing a single 60ft dive for 30 minutes with no unusual underwater incidents. Doctor puts him in chamber and symptoms are relieved. Diver disgnosed with DCS, an "undeserved hit". That gets a report.

An amazing number of things get a report. The number of reports is a meaningless statistic unless you have more information. One of the vital bits of information you would need is some way to determine the number od dives that occurred without incident. Generally, a busy shop would be expected to have more incidents in a given time frame than a shop that is not very busy.