Diver bit off Jupiter during shark feed.

[chillyinCanada]

Yea, good plan, counting on your spidey senses like that.

 

[drrich2]

Dumpster Diver:

Thanks for the added details. Helpful.

I get the feeling that too many people, possibly even you, at one time,, take on an attitude that this wouldn't be "allowed" if it really was NOT safe for the divers. That is the mind set that I find so hard to reconcile. Remember it is illegal in Florida, but the federal government is not stepping in on this as far as I know.

True. I tended to think if lay people were getting seriously hurt often on shark feeding dives that they would've probably been shut down, given the political/litigious nature of society at this time. The definition of 'often' is vague, though. Especially if no one knows just how many incidents happen. I believe in disclosure of risk. Customers should have a reasonable idea of what they're signing onto. But I want adults to have the right to decide for themselves. The staff doing feeding remind me of circus staff working with lions & tigers; there's gotta be some risk there!

Common sense suggests there's some increased risk for others. If I dive out of Jupiter, odds of a tiger shark or big bull attacking me are minute. But, if there are 4 times as many in my general vicinity for whatever reason, there's increased risk.

drrich, you dove Belize last year IIRC. Surely you encountered the four sharks that like to hangout at Halfmoon Caye wall. Those sharks only started coming around and hanging out once the lionfish culls began. They don't care if we don't have a spear and/or haven't killed/fed any lionfish to the groupers/morays/barracuda on our dive. They still hang with the divers and frankly, I find them more intimidating every time I return.

We saw reef sharks. They did a little feeding. One dive, a perforated 5 gallon bucket with dead lion fish was used to draw in sharks; mainly one big one around 5-6 feet long. On a later dive a guide went around handing the fish out to predators (trigger fish & Nassau grouper, mainly) & either that shark, or one just like it, came in. I was higher in the water column but fairly close, and the shark sort of passed the bottom, turned & rose in my general direction (not direct confrontation; I saw nothing aggressive & suspect that shark was scoping out whether I was after the dead lion fish on the sand). Bit anxiety provoking, but a special memory.

None of the reef sharks I saw came close unless somebody had a lion fish, and the only time I saw that 'get interesting,' a guide carried a dead one around for awhile. 2 Reef sharks wanted it & got competitive. I used to want to someday spear lion fish. Now I'm not so sure. Think I'd want a dive buddy if I did… Another day I followed a guide around & he killed several lion fish & stuck them in a container right away; no shark drama (his were the ones that went in the perforated bucket another day, so I assume they 'got a little ripe').

ChillyInCanada, how close did they get to you, the non-feeding diver, on dives when there was no feeding? Do you not like sharks in the vicinity, or did they get close & inspect you?

We've been told to be sure to keep our hands tucked and I can guarantee you my hands are hard under my armpits whether I'm eye to eye with one or not.

Was this on all the dives?

If you want to see more sharks than you can count on a single dive, some that will line up beside you in the current, go to the Maldives. That's freakin' incredible.

Too far & expensive, but Lord willing & providing, I've got a trip booked this summer for Morehead City, North Carolina, to wreck dive with the sand tiger sharks. Non-feeding dives reputed for substantial numbers of 'fairly benign' (no guarantees) pretty big gnarly looking sharks people can get close to. Warm water part of the year, often good viz.

Richard.

 

[sheeper]

my group of divers have noticed an increase in aggressiveness in our local sharks and a greater comfort level among divers. We see sharks spending more time around diver groups and getting closer. Several of us, myself included, have been bumped by sharks more often recently than we can remember. There are several dive sites that we no longer frequent with less experienced divers due to increased aggressive shark activity. The mere sound of a speargun band now attracts sharks. Recently, I had several large Bulls circling a group and getting far too close to divers. It was enough to make me nervous. I had not seen that kind of behavior in the past unless we were spearing.

Each of us dives over 100 times a year in our local waters so we have a good sample.

there is little question in our minds that shark feeding activities changes the picture. it is only a matter of time before someone gets seriously hurt. Of course, shark feeding trips are good money makers. I guess that is reason enough.

 

[HalcyonDaze]

my group of divers have noticed an increase in aggressiveness in our local sharks and a greater comfort level among divers. We see sharks spending more time around diver groups and getting closer. Several of us, myself included, have been bumped by sharks more often recently than we can remember. There are several dive sites that we no longer frequent with less experienced divers due to increased aggressive shark activity. The mere sound of a speargun band now attracts sharks. Recently, I had several large Bulls circling a group and getting far too close to divers. It was enough to make me nervous. I had not seen that kind of behavior in the past unless we were spearing.

Each of us dives over 100 times a year in our local waters so we have a good sample.

there is little question in our minds that shark feeding activities changes the picture. it is only a matter of time before someone gets seriously hurt. Of course, shark feeding trips are good money makers. I guess that is reason enough.

A few questions for clarification:

1) What time scale are you referring to? The feeding ops off Jupiter are a relatively new thing, say 2012/2013 was when it started happening in an organized fashion.

2) What dive sites are you keeping the inexperienced divers away from? Are these the same sites the feeds are done at?

 

[djtimmy77]

We have noticed the same change with the sharks in Jupiter as well....not just directly at the feeding site. Prior to the feedings the vast majority of sharks would stay at the edge of visibility, or maybe cruise by at a distance if they were swimming down the reef. Now, they come right up to you, and pretty much follow you the whole dive. This is on sightseeing non spearfishing dives. (Tunnels is an exception as the sharks there were a lot more "friendly" prior to the feeding....although I haven't been to Tunnels in quite a while.)

Of course while shared by many regular Jupiter divers I have spoken with this is only a "personal anecdote" and not a "scientific study" so shark feed supporters will completely deny this is of any concern and often refer to shark dives where none show up for the free food as "evidence" that the behavior isn't changed (even though that isn't a scientific study either.)

It comes as no surprise to me that the shark feeders don't want any details of injuries to get out as it could lead to further restrictions on their "educational" and "conservation" dives.

It does have some influence as to where we choose to dive now (mostly further south) however there are other factors as well such as moving out of Jupiter and a desire for more variety in our diving. We did dive Jupiter a couple weeks ago on the main ledge and yes, the sharks swam right up to us.

 

[boulderjohn]

True. I tended to think if lay people were getting seriously hurt often on shark feeding dives that they would've probably been shut down, given the political/litigious nature of society at this time.

I am a snowbird who visits Florida each winter, not a resident, so perhaps a resident will correct any misinformation. It is my understanding that shark feeding is illegal in Florida, so dive operators who want to do them must go to sites just outside of state waters.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I think I have made it clear that I don't think that running an underwater circus feeding sharks is a wise activity, however, to be fair, there is something else occurring that is probably MUCH more significant.

There are more sharks, WAY more sharks, maybe 10 or 50 times more sharks in the local area compared to the way it was 15 or 20 years ago. I used to commercially hunt grouper locally and would put the grouper in a solid canvass bag clipped to my side. I would rarely see a shark and don't recall any close encounters with sharks over several years of this during the winter when hunting the seasonal gags.

Since that time, the commercial harvest of sharks has been greatly reduced. We hear over and over about how terrible it is that people are eating shark fins and about huge mortalities, but in Florida, both in the Gulf and the south Atlantic, there is no doubt in my mind that the populations are exploding!

For the last 6 or 8 years, I will rarely risk putting a grouper in a catch bag locally because of the sharks. There is definitely way more of them and they "seem" more aggressive. Another thing that needs to be recognized is that one big bull shark can be dangerous around a speared fish, but 5 bullsharks competing for the same fish are much, much more dangerous, especially for a solo diver.

So now most people will send large fish up on a float to be picked up by the boat- because the sharks are too aggressive in the local area. Things are very different. Not all of it is because of hand feeding, but it sure doesn't help.

---------- Post added July 11th, 2015 at 10:47 AM ----------

I am a snowbird who visits Florida each winter, not a resident, so perhaps a resident will correct any misinformation. It is my understanding that shark feeding is illegal in Florida, so dive operators who want to do them must go to sites just outside of state waters.

Yes the local operator was convicted and fined for his illegal feeding operations and is under probation. I wonder if he shows his latest dive videos to his probation officer?

He has since moved it several hundred yards away so it occurs in federal waters (3 miles out) - where it is perfectly legal.

 

[drrich2]

We have noticed the same change with the sharks in Jupiter as well....not just directly at the feeding site. Prior to the feedings the vast majority of sharks would stay at the edge of visibility, or maybe cruise by at a distance if they were swimming down the reef. Now, they come right up to you, and pretty much follow you the whole dive. This is on sightseeing non spearfishing dives.

Reading this post & Dumpster Diver's latest, I was reminded that Jupiter as a dive destination seems to be promoted for 'big stuff' including sharks. Many people wanted shark populations to rebound drastically. When I dove Key Largo, a guide used a small mirror to flash & draw reef sharks in closer so we could get a better look. A lot of tourists want to see sharks. Stuart Cove in the Bahamas is famous largely because of their shark feed dive, from what I read. So, in light of all that and this discussion, some questions come up...

1.) How many sharks do we want frequenting sites regular dive tourists (& locals) visit? Do we want uncommon sightings at the edge of vision (less than 1 dive in 5?), fairly common (e.g.: 1/3rd of dives) distant sightings near the edge of vision, or common (> 1/3'rd of dives) sightings where at least one shark passes close enough to get a fairly sharp, detailed photo (e.g.: smaller shark within 20 feet), medium shark within 50)?

2.) How close do we want sharks to get? Obviously we don't want tiger sharks bumping tanks, or really any shark touching divers, but how far back do we want them to be? I don't read of non-divers harassed by tiger sharks; seems it's mainly 'reef sharks' and occasionally bulls? How close do we want these animals to get to divers outside feeding dives?

There are many people on this board who love to see sharks. There are a few who'd rather not see them at all. The degree to which ScubaBoard is representative of the recreational diving public has been debated, but let's say at least somewhat.

My point is, if people go to Jupiter to see & photograph sharks on dives with non-feed op.s, then having reef sharks come in fairly close (but no contact) could be a good thing (at least some of the time). But do we have any common ground on what we want the 'shark scene' in the Jupiter area to be?

As a side question, given that one of Jupiter's selling points is shark sightings, if Emerald (or another shark feeder) opened a satellite operation diving just outside the 3 mile point outside of Key Largo & Islamorada, would anyone's opinion on the issues be any different?

Richard.

 

[Jax]

shark week is crap. They make stuff up. Last year they used my boat (which I had just sold). They spray painted the stainless prop, scratched it up and claimed that the marks were made by a shark biting the prop and then fabricated a whole story around a shark fisherman - who was just a person they found at the boat ramp. Who knows what else they fabricate.

:calle:

If you read the 'small print' on such things, they all say that this is a re-creation of a true story.

I am a snowbird who visits Florida each winter, not a resident, so perhaps a resident will correct any misinformation. It is my understanding that shark feeding is illegal in Florida, so dive operators who want to do them must go to sites just outside of state waters.

Those operations that have been doing feeding before the law have been grandfathered in. Capt Slates Creature Feature is one of them.

What I gathered from those that live there: The sharks learned the 'twang' of a spear gun is tantamount to a dinner bell. The spearo puts the catch on a bag to make sure the shark don't hang around him or her -- but sometimes, they don't have fish left because the sharks follow the fish to the surface.

Now, ask hunters about what they do with their kill to make sure an apex predator doesn't take it from them! Nature's rules . . . Nature always wins.

 

[HalcyonDaze]

I think I have made it clear that I don't think that running an underwater circus feeding sharks is a wise activity, however, to be fair, there is something else occurring that is probably MUCH more significant.

There are more sharks, WAY more sharks, maybe 10 or 50 times more sharks in the local area compared to the way it was 15 or 20 years ago. I used to commercially hunt grouper locally and would put the grouper in a solid canvass bag clipped to my side. I would rarely see a shark and don't recall any close encounters with sharks over several years of this during the winter when hunting the seasonal gags.

Since that time, the commercial harvest of sharks has been greatly reduced. We hear over and over about how terrible it is that people are eating shark fins and about huge mortalities, but in Florida, both in the Gulf and the south Atlantic, there is no doubt in my mind that the populations are exploding!

For the last 6 or 8 years, I will rarely risk putting a grouper in a catch bag locally because of the sharks. There is definitely way more of them and they "seem" more aggressive. Another thing that needs to be recognized is that one big bull shark can be dangerous around a speared fish, but 5 bullsharks competing for the same fish are much, much more dangerous, especially for a solo diver.

So now most people will send large fish up on a float to be picked up by the boat- because the sharks are too aggressive in the local area. Things are very different. Not all of it is because of hand feeding, but it sure doesn't help.

---------- Post added July 11th, 2015 at 10:47 AM ----------




Yes the local operator was convicted and fined for his illegal feeding operations and is under probation. I wonder if he shows his latest dive videos to his probation officer?

He has since moved it several hundred yards away so it occurs in federal waters (3 miles out) - where it is perfectly legal.

15-20 years sounds about right - that's the generation time for a lot of these species (tigers seem to grow up faster). Back in the 1980s was when NMFS decided to promote commercial shark fishing as an "under-utilized resource," and within about 10 years a lot of populations crashed hard. A few hundred million years of evolution never prepared them for that kind of sustained attrition. Quite a few get gobbled as pups and juveniles, but once they reach adulthood not much besides the really big sharks will go after them.

One of the problems we have is the issue of shifting baselines - now it might look like there are a lot more sharks as compared to 20 years ago, but I wonder what the comparison would be if one went back a half-century or more. The peak decade for shark attacks on divers in Florida was the 1960s; it wouldn't surprise me if what we see now is a reduction compared to what was out there 50 years ago. There's also the matter that sharks and spearfishers are both there to hunt fish, so they tend to frequent the same locations. These charters doing feedings didn't just pick spots at random and start baiting; the sharks were around to begin with. If you're going to be chumming on a three-tank shark trip, even on a ripping current any shark you attract probably has to be within a few miles. Emerald's feeding dives evolved out of spearing trips; the word got out that sharks would show up during the spearfishing, non-spearos started signing on to see the sharks, and that wound up becoming Randy's bread and butter.

The shifting baseline also applies to definitions of "aggressive behavior" - I've seen plenty of YouTube videos where one five-foot shark loitering about 15-20 feet away gets a powerhead, whereas in this situation I was on my toes but not feeling threatened (at least one diver got some speared fish on the boat through this) - https://vimeo.com/128738746