• Welcome to ScubaBoard


  1. Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

    Benefits of registering include

    • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
    • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
    • You can make this box go away

    Joining is quick and easy. Login or Register now by clicking on the button

Diver dies in Sea of Cortez

Discussion in 'Basic Scuba Discussions' started by DandyDon, Nov 30, 2003.

  1. DandyDon

    DandyDon Old men ought to be explorers ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: One kilometer high on the Texas High Plains
    45,712
    2,981
    113
    This is always sad, even as rare as it is...

    http://www.qctimes.com/internal.php?story_id=1020348&t=Local+News&c=2,1020348

    New Scuba Board member "Nan" asked about her, a personal friend, in her third post - only hours after joining, and hasn't been back since. My sympathies to Nan and other friends & loved ones.

    And an update...

    http://www.qctimes.com/internal.php?story_id=1020869&t=Local+News&c=2,1020869

    But I gotta' say - that was the way to go. The lady started diving at 63, kept diving into her late 70s, and died doing what she loved. That's the way I wanta' go, not being tended in a nursing home.

    don
     
  2. brizzolatti

    brizzolatti Nassau Grouper

    182
    0
    0
    THis is really sad and must have been devastating to those involved. Condolences to them all. But what an inspiration the lady was. A life well lived.
     
  3. roturner

    roturner ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands, Netherlands
    16,393
    3,446
    113
    I've been diving in that area (a little further to the south, by Puerto Escondido) and even a mile offshore the surge can be heavy. On one dive we were getting funnelled through "canyons" or "crevices" in bottom formations at speeds that just about pull the mask off your face. Steering is still possible but stopping isn't. It's a wild ride but I can see how someone could easily collide with something and get knocked unconscious.

    My sincere condolences to the friends and family.

    R..
     
  4. MikeFerrara

    MikeFerrara Instructor, Scuba

    14,095
    20
    0
    Sounds like a great place for a 77 year old who always follows the divemaster to be diving.

    I didn't get the impression she died doing what she loved. I got the impression that she died being bashed against the rocks and that her last moments were horrifying.
    She might have made 100.
     
  5. Cudabait

    Cudabait IDC Staff Instructor

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Houston, Texas, Bay Islands, Honduras
    1,325
    39
    48
    Sad...

    I don't second guess diving accident deaths without having complete access to the investigative facts. Things are not always what they might seem. It would appear that Mr. Jones' actions were heroic, to say the least. He is probably troubled considerably that his efforts were not successful. Hopefully, he will realize that he was not a contributing factor and should not harbor feelings of guilt. I commend him for his valiant effort to save the woman.
     
  6. Wingtip

    Wingtip Angel Fish

    38
    0
    0
    Because you'll never get full access to the investigation.

    Feel free to stick your head into the sand and pity the no-fault death. It's tragic to lose any diver, but what is truly sad is those that can't get past the touchy-feely issues of blame and remorse to learn lessons from tragedy and then apply those lessons to their own diving.
     
  7. Cudabait

    Cudabait IDC Staff Instructor

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Houston, Texas, Bay Islands, Honduras
    1,325
    39
    48
    Wingtip,

    I think you're trolling.....however, you are probably correct in saying that I will never see the facts. What you should know is that I investigate these types of accidents and as such I know what I said in my earlier post stands.
     
  8. roturner

    roturner ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands, Netherlands
    16,393
    3,446
    113
    I'm curious. When you read the report weren't you able to form any sense of what happened?

    R..
     
  9. MikeFerrara

    MikeFerrara Instructor, Scuba

    14,095
    20
    0

    I agree.

    We never have all the facts and there often aren't witnesses. So? If we take what little we know and theorize to fill in the blanks what would we come up with? What are the risks in doing so? I say none. At worst we could improve in an area that wasn't the cause of this accident. That doesn't sound so bad. As long as we don't put any one in jail without the facts, I don't see a down side. Besides, in many of these accident there's more than enough to convince a jury that our story is correct. Maybe that's part of the problem too.


    According to the article which could be bs....
    1, We have A diver who according to her buddy like to stay above and behind which is the single worst place to be because it's your buddies blind spot.

    2, We have a 77 year old in tough conditions. I would say that there is a pretty good chance that contributed.

    3, We have yet another buddy seperation. Maybe hanging in the blind spot had something to do with that.

    4, we apparantly have a standing plan to surface in the case of a seperation. Sometimes that's a goos plan and sometimes not. In a strong current you could end up in cuba or China that way

    5, we have divers doing trust-me dives. It sounds like that's what the victim did most...follow the DM. That's not bad if you know what they're getting you into.

    What don't we know?

    Alot but we don't know when they were seperated. We don't know when or why the victim went to the surface. We don't know if the conditions were the problem or how big of a contributing factor.

    I do know that buddy seperation is the MO and that panic is usually the last straw. Also the panic is usually over something that's anything but life threatening.

    So if we took this PURE speculation that seems to fit the information presented in the article and decided to do a better job of teaching team diving like teaching them to use a side by side or a single file formation so they could more easily see each other... If we had some meaningful team diving performance requirements in training...If we more strongly discouraged these trust-me dives...could we really mess anything up?

    I think not. As long as we don't use speculation to punish or prosecute, we can't get in any trouble fixing the wrong thing. At least we would have fixed something. As it is, and as usual we will address nothing and fix nothing because we don't have absolute proof of anything except that something may need to be fixed.

    Sorry...just thinking on the keyboard.
     
  10. Cudabait

    Cudabait IDC Staff Instructor

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Houston, Texas, Bay Islands, Honduras
    1,325
    39
    48
    Mike,

    After reading your lengthy post "thinking on the keyboard" it would seem that we are on the same page. Any diving death is tragic. Maybe something could be fixed. However, I choose to approach it differently than you. I'm not going to speculate about something, or the actions someone may, or may not have taken, particularly, as you have said, without facts. Actually, from what I've read, the actual cause of death has not been determined. Probably drowning, only a post mortem will tell. (not likey in Baja Mexico)

    Mike, I'm not trying to make a case one way or the other. It's a terrible tragedy, Mr. Jones did the best he could. Had it been you, (victim or rescuer) I would say the same thing. Regards,
     

Share This Page