Diver lost in Cozumel today

[Mike]

Missing Diver March 28, 2012 in Cozumel UPDATE | Divetalking

That's a horribly misleading blog post. The misinterpretation it contains insinuates a mystery current that pulled a diver below the surface, or pulled her down when close to the surface as she was going to the surface. It's mixing up the down current and the later event of her going to the surface as if they were one in the same and resulting in her disappearance.

 

[t4e]

well reading all this threads it definitely changed my mind about going to Cozumel

my question is what about Mayan Riviera and Playa del Carmen, are they better for new divers?

 

[rkfatheree]

What is misleading?

That's a horribly misleading blog post. The misinterpretation it contains insinuates a mystery current that pulled a diver below the surface, or pulled her down when close to the surface as she was going to the surface. It's mixing up the down current and the later event of her going to the surface as if they were one in the same and resulting in her disappearance.

 

[pjhansman]

well reading all this threads it definitely changed my mind about going to Cozumel

my question is what about Mayan Riviera and Playa del Carmen, are they better for new divers?

There is nothing wrong with Coz for a new diver. Just be up-front with the dive op about your experience, and pay a few extra pesos for some extra attention from a private divemaster for the first couple dives.

It's definitely worth it.

 

[DandyDon]

well reading all this threads it definitely changed my mind about going to Cozumel

my question is what about Mayan Riviera and Playa del Carmen, are they better for new divers?

I'm sorry to see you take it that way as I don't think that Coz is dangerous diving. I might agree that too many take it too lightly as it can be serious diving, but then the sport should always be treated with serious respect, planning and preparation. Down currents are rare, but while they do happen - it's really not big deal to swim out of them. I prefer swimming away from the wall, some like to cling the wall, and some like to just keep going across the wall - but it's those who were not prepared and stuggled up into the current that are posting the frightened reports I think. You should always keep your buddy close, good gas reserves, and good situational awareness for any diving. The vast majority of dive injuries and losses that are explained seem to point to diver errors.

Now, my first time to Coz was not my first dive trip and I was quite comfortable, perhaps overly so - yet I did have a brand new diver with me who was not so comfortable, and hiring her a private DM the first day did help a lot. Great idea.

What is misleading?

I do think the post too readily blames the accident on a down current. For two very new divers, off of a cruise ship for one day of diving - then straight to SR Wall, I'm guessing with rental gear and no signaling devices, unknown & untested weighting, and so forth - just too many possibilities and unknowns to say for sure what went wrong. No one saw the lady in a down current, and it could have just as easily been another of a number of possible reasons.

 

[mahjong]

There is a reason why drift diving is "extreme" diving. It is also one reason so many people love Coz, as there is an added 'high' when completing a dive under conditions where you ceded more control than you normally do to the fickle forces of the sea. In a current, you always cede some degree of control over your situation. This is the reason why drift diving is "extreme" diving. Current is a natural, inherent, everyday characteristic of conditions at Coz. On easy days, anyone can dive there, to be sure. On easy days, anyone can dive anywhere. What makes a place appropriate for true beginners is a place where conditions have a minimum of inherently unpredictable and dangerous possibilities. Coz is NOT one of these places. The most natural characteristic of conditions at Coz--currents--engenders the natural possibility of dangerous and unpredictable situations.

 

[rkfatheree]

I don't think it's misleading - it's the perspective of a DM who was at Santa Rosa at the same time. It's apparently this person's opinion that with all the dramatic down currents, one could have caused the diver to not make it to the surface. Since even the diver's husband/dive buddy didn't see her make it to the surface, no one knows what happened. On the flight home today, I sat in front of a man who was diving with Sand Dollar all week. They had a DM on their boat that was on Santa Rosa at the time of the diver's disappearance. His story was identical to the one I heard from another source: the husband did not alert the DM and the woman was not discovered missing until everyone boarded the boat. Of course, every person is going to have his/her own recollection of the day, and until we find the diver and her tanks, we probably aren't going to know what actually happened.

Given the conditions over the last ten days, I find it surprising that two new divers would tackle Santa Rosa. IMHO, even in calm seas that is not the ideal site for inexperienced drift divers. Regardless of conditions, gear and experience, if her buddy did not ascend with her, whether he notified the DM or not, that's where I see the biggest break down in "procedure".

Just yesterday I listened to a DM brief two new divers (she actually had to show them how to use their inflators). She told them if they had any problems underwater, to come to her and she would help them. NOTHING about sticking together, ascending together, etc. I was shocked after what we've heard in the last few days. Ended up on the second dive that the man had some problem and ascended on his own. The DMs hovered as if they weren't sure what to do. I told my husband and the ascending diver's girlfriend to buddy up and that I would go up with the man. When I indicated to the DMs that I would cut my dive short to ascend with the diver, they made it clear that they were taking care of it. In a minute, a boat pulled up, so I went back to my husband and the girlfriend, but watched to make sure the diver made it onto the boat. Still, neither DM went up with the diver, neither surfaced to check on his problem and possibly bring him back down for a safety stop.

Near the end of this same dive, my husband was getting LOA, so one DM told him to ascend with the other DM. I buddied up with another diver. Near the end of their safety stop, the DM ran OOA. (My husband thought she was asking him if he was OOA...) Instead of grabbing his octopus, she grabbed his inflater and took a breath from that. You know what happens when you take air out of a BC, right? So here is my husband with less than 200 left and the DM is emptying his vest because as she later said, she couldn't see his octopus (same place as always and it's bright yellow). He is a very thin guy, so he doesn't float on his own. If I had any idea that she was so low, I would have ascended with him instead of trusting her to go with him.

Not sure why I told that whole story, but anything can happen on a dive. Some things are more likely to happen on some sites under some conditions. Having a skilled and knowledgeable buddy to help you if you can't help yourself is key, regardless of how the trouble starts. Divers should know that they are responsible for themselves and then their buddies, but I can see how new divers could be misled if they received a briefing like the one I heard. I am absolutely NOT implying that the missing woman and her husband were so advised. Just reiterating that we dont' know what happened, but that hearing different perspectives might help us better piece it together. Then we can try to learn from this awful incident.

I'm sorry to see you take it that way as I don't think that Coz is dangerous diving. I might agree that too many take it too lightly as it can be serious diving, but then the sport should always be treated with serious respect, planning and preparation. Down currents are rare, but while they do happen - it's really not big deal to swim out of them. I prefer swimming away from the wall, some like to cling the wall, and some like to just keep going across the wall - but it's those who were not prepared and stuggled up into the current that are posting the frightened reports I think. You should always keep your buddy close, good gas reserves, and good situational awareness for any diving. The vast majority of dive injuries and losses that are explained seem to point to diver errors.

Now, my first time to Coz was not my first dive trip and I was quite comfortable, perhaps overly so - yet I did have a brand new diver with me who was not so comfortable, and hiring her a private DM the first day did help a lot. Great idea.


I do think the post too readily blames the accident on a down current. For two very new divers, off of a cruise ship for one day of diving - then straight to SR Wall, I'm guessing with rental gear and no signaling devices, unknown & untested weighting, and so forth - just too many possibilities and unknowns to say for sure what went wrong. No one saw the lady in a down current, and it could have just as easily been another of a number of possible reasons.

 

[t4e]

There is nothing wrong with Coz for a new diver. Just be up-front with the dive op about your experience, and pay a few extra pesos for some extra attention from a private divemaster for the first couple dives.

It's definitely worth it.

i'm not saying is wrong is just that it seems that for noobs like myself, with no experience in drift diving seems to be the potential to put myself in a situation where i have no idea how i would react

I'm sorry to see you take it that way as I don't think that Coz is dangerous diving. I might agree that too many take it too lightly as it can be serious diving, but then the sport should always be treated with serious respect, planning and preparation. Down currents are rare, but while they do happen - it's really not big deal to swim out of them. I prefer swimming away from the wall, some like to cling the wall, and some like to just keep going across the wall - but it's those who were not prepared and stuggled up into the current that are posting the frightened reports I think. You should always keep your buddy close, good gas reserves, and good situational awareness for any diving. The vast majority of dive injuries and losses that are explained seem to point to diver errors.

Now, my first time to Coz was not my first dive trip and I was quite comfortable, perhaps overly so - yet I did have a brand new diver with me who was not so comfortable, and hiring her a private DM the first day did help a lot. Great idea.

i do treat the sport with serious respect and is for that reason, because i know my limitations as a new diver that i appreciate the insight this thread has given me
if i did not come across them i wouldn't know any better
i agree that issues can come up anywhere but as i said above i have no experience at all, and i mean practical experience in drift diving
theoretically i know what i should do but in the heat of the moment i don't know if my current experience will "save" me
i'm not dismissing Cozumel as a great diving experience, i am just going to put it off for now until i have more dives under my belt

but returning to my original question, is Mayan Riviera and Playa del Carmen prone to those same issues?

thanks for the replies guys

 

[citycountryguy]

RK, that dives sounds like a sort of cluster. You going with the same op again?

 

[DandyDon]

T4, I still suggest hiring a private DM to help you learn at Coz - but diving PDC is okay if you want less.

I don't think it's misleading - it's the perspective of a DM who was at Santa Rosa at the same time. It's apparently this person's opinion that with all the dramatic down currents, one could have caused the diver to not make it to the surface. Since even the diver's husband/dive buddy didn't see her make it to the surface, no one knows what happened.

Well, I agree - and that's why I see the post blaming a down current as too dismissing. They really don't know. When I dive with a buddy, I make my intentions and requirements clear: We stay together period - enter together, descend together, swim together, ascend together, board together - none of this meet-you-there caca. If the buddy is not agreeable, then I'd rather not have the responsibility and just dive alone with my pony.

On the flight home today, I sat in front of a man who was diving with Sand Dollar all week. They had a DM on their boat that was on Santa Rosa at the time of the diver's disappearance. His story was identical to the one I heard from another source: the husband did not alert the DM and the woman was not discovered missing until everyone boarded the boat. Of course, every person is going to have his/her own recollection of the day, and until we find the diver and her tanks, we probably aren't going to know what actually happened.

I doubt there's much chance of that.

Given the conditions over the last ten days, I find it surprising that two new divers would tackle Santa Rosa. IMHO, even in calm seas that is not the ideal site for inexperienced drift divers. Regardless of conditions, gear and experience, if her buddy did not ascend with her, whether he notified the DM or not, that's where I see the biggest break down in "procedure".

I don't they should have, at least not without a private DM.

Just yesterday I listened to a DM brief two new divers (she actually had to show them how to use their inflators). She told them if they had any problems underwater, to come to her and she would help them. NOTHING about sticking together, ascending together, etc. I was shocked after what we've heard in the last few days. Ended up on the second dive that the man had some problem and ascended on his own. The DMs hovered as if they weren't sure what to do. I told my husband and the ascending diver's girlfriend to buddy up and that I would go up with the man. When I indicated to the DMs that I would cut my dive short to ascend with the diver, they made it clear that they were taking care of it. In a minute, a boat pulled up, so I went back to my husband and the girlfriend, but watched to make sure the diver made it onto the boat. Still, neither DM went up with the diver, neither surfaced to check on his problem and possibly bring him back down for a safety stop.

Near the end of this same dive, my husband was getting LOA, so one DM told him to ascend with the other DM. I buddied up with another diver. Near the end of their safety stop, the DM ran OOA. (My husband thought she was asking him if he was OOA...) Instead of grabbing his octopus, she grabbed his inflater and took a breath from that. You know what happens when you take air out of a BC, right? So here is my husband with less than 200 left and the DM is emptying his vest because as she later said, she couldn't see his octopus (same place as always and it's bright yellow). He is a very thin guy, so he doesn't float on his own. If I had any idea that she was so low, I would have ascended with him instead of trusting her to go with him.

Not sure why I told that whole story, but anything can happen on a dive. Some things are more likely to happen on some sites under some conditions. Having a skilled and knowledgeable buddy to help you if you can't help yourself is key, regardless of how the trouble starts. Divers should know that they are responsible for themselves and then their buddies, but I can see how new divers could be misled if they received a briefing like the one I heard. I am absolutely NOT implying that the missing woman and her husband were so advised. Just reiterating that we dont' know what happened, but that hearing different perspectives might help us better piece it together. Then we can try to learn from this awful incident.

That sounds like pathetic cat herding. There are newbie dives at Cozumel. But then I've seen newbies on our boats when they shouldn't have been. I'm sure it's challenging to match divers and their skills to boats at times, but damn. I remember one young couple diving with us a couple of years ago, seeing him off to my right, her off to my left - then finding my own bud who'd lagged behind. I dropped back to him, my responsibility - and hoped the two solo divers didn't run into problems. Glad they didn't.

I wonder if DMs give the impression that they are there to take care of divers, leading to false feelings of security. If a DM wants to know when I am going up, he'd need to be looking my way - as my reel & SMB are going up with me following when I need to, and my bud better be with me taking turns with his reel.