diver presumed dead in Petawawa River
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swankenstein:
I should have said thru a base/unit sponsored club.
When I was in Cyrus in 92/93 the C.O. did forbid diving below 80ft for all CF members after a Austrian soldier died but thats an active duty area so....
diverindeep
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This is tragic. Here is more information about the event from the Pembroke newspaper. (Pembroke is 15 minutes east of Petawawa along the Ottawa River)
http://www.thedailyobserver.ca/weba...23736&catname=Local+News&classif=News+-+Local
http://www.thedailyobserver.ca/weba...23738&catname=Local News&classif=News - Local
I dive with a club out of a town 25 minutes west along the Ottawa River from where this happened.
This accident occurred in a pool/basin in the Petawawa River a few hundred meters upstream of where it flows into the Ottawa. There is a photo of the area in the first article. The photo gives you a good look at the area. It shows the entire width of the basin (photo was taken from the beach entry area). In the summer this is a fantastic place to dive. I have been there 6 times, and would gladly take any diver there of any certification level....IN THE SUMMER! It is now early April! That water 200m downstream had ice covering it less than two weeks ago. The photo doesn't show the strong current...it is strong and it changes at different depths! I had a dive there once the day after a rain storm and couldn't see 1 foot in front of my face! This is spring run off time...it wouldn't be much better than that now! The newspaper article quotes someone as saying the visibility was 5 to 10'...ok...that's still poor! So, I don't like to say too much until all the facts are in, but....moderate to probably strong current, very cold water, poor visibility...is this a dive to be used as a basic scuba check-out? I'm Rescue Certified and Advanced Certified and I wouldn't dive there in April! No way!
I really wish that these guys hadn't either.
http://www.thedailyobserver.ca/weba...23736&catname=Local+News&classif=News+-+Local
http://www.thedailyobserver.ca/weba...23738&catname=Local News&classif=News - Local
I dive with a club out of a town 25 minutes west along the Ottawa River from where this happened.
This accident occurred in a pool/basin in the Petawawa River a few hundred meters upstream of where it flows into the Ottawa. There is a photo of the area in the first article. The photo gives you a good look at the area. It shows the entire width of the basin (photo was taken from the beach entry area). In the summer this is a fantastic place to dive. I have been there 6 times, and would gladly take any diver there of any certification level....IN THE SUMMER! It is now early April! That water 200m downstream had ice covering it less than two weeks ago. The photo doesn't show the strong current...it is strong and it changes at different depths! I had a dive there once the day after a rain storm and couldn't see 1 foot in front of my face! This is spring run off time...it wouldn't be much better than that now! The newspaper article quotes someone as saying the visibility was 5 to 10'...ok...that's still poor! So, I don't like to say too much until all the facts are in, but....moderate to probably strong current, very cold water, poor visibility...is this a dive to be used as a basic scuba check-out? I'm Rescue Certified and Advanced Certified and I wouldn't dive there in April! No way!
I really wish that these guys hadn't either.
stacey_n_jamie
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this begs the question if it is a known area of hazard in the spring why use it as a checkout dive area ?some ones arse is going in the meat grinder for this one.
My condolences to the family, friends, members of 3 RCR and CFB Petawawa In the military a death is community felt .
The Baracuda Scuba Club has a history of producing high quality divers. They have equipment and training facilities suitable for instructing divers to handle various diving conditions such as those of the Petawawa River, at least they did when I was the president back in 1996-1997. The dive site talked about here is called the Petawawa Point or The Golf Course Rapids depending on which bank you are starting from. It is a "very" good site for diver check outs. I myself did my first open water dives there back in December 1976. The river does not as a norm have much ice on it at any time of year. The waters are dark yielding at best 20-25 ft viz and varying in temperatures from below freezing to low 70 F. The river's current conditions vary but generally are considered fast waters. There is little to no current at depth in the pocket below the rapids, it is a sheltered area and it is here where most divers skills are checked the depth is 25-30 ft at best. I am not attempting to defend these instructors and the choice they made to dive that day, I do not know them. But there is a point to be made. It is a military base people come and go. I have made hundreds of dives at this site and have certified many a student using it. I was not there that day and I will not be hypocritical of them ( the instructors) while siting back here at a desk reading this thread. I am amazed at how many people, Not all but some who will and are quick to condem the instructors for diving this site with students. Dive instruction is designed to train divers to dive in what the local conditions offer. The Petawawa River is typical of local diving conditions for that area. Many who are jumping on the "Lets Hang Them" band wagon don't appear to me IMO to have had the instruction or are instructors that could handle diving in waters of this condition, temps below 85 f, viz less then 10 ft and with currents. I teach now living in Florida I have stopped training of many cave diver wanna- bes who have come from warm water environments because they are lacking the skill or the comfort to dive in similar conditions as what these divers were being trained to do from the start. Dive instruction is and has been set up to teach based on the local diving environments. So having made many dives at this site and trained many studnets using it I do not critize the instructors for diving there. I was not there that day and therefore cannot make a judgement as to what the water conditions were and as to whether or not I would have made the dive. I will let the investigation deal with the instructors. As a following note the Baracuda Scuba Club has or had policies in place that required the use of diving resources when making club sanctioned dives involving students and the students have the right to decide for themselves if they are ready or not. I do not think they would have changed that policy. For those who are reading this thread your opinions are free to be expressed but question yourself as to whether you could have handled diving in similar conditions now or as a student? Because as a studnet you do make trust me dives....
The Baracuda Scuba Club has a history of producing high quality divers. They have equipment and training facilities suitable for instructing divers to handle various diving conditions such as those of the Petawawa River, at least they did when I was the president back in 1996-1997. The dive site talked about here is called the Petawawa Point or The Golf Course Rapids depending on which bank you are starting from. It is a "very" good site for diver check outs. I myself did my first open water dives there back in December 1976. The river does not as a norm have much ice on it at any time of year. The waters are dark yielding at best 20-25 ft viz and varying in temperatures from below freezing to low 70 F. The river's current conditions vary but generally are considered fast waters. There is little to no current at depth in the pocket below the rapids, it is a sheltered area and it is here where most divers skills are checked the depth is 25-30 ft at best. I am not attempting to defend these instructors and the choice they made to dive that day, I do not know them. But there is a point to be made. It is a military base people come and go. I have made hundreds of dives at this site and have certified many a student using it. I was not there that day and I will not be hypocritical of them ( the instructors) while siting back here at a desk reading this thread. I am amazed at how many people, Not all but some who will and are quick to condem the instructors for diving this site with students. Dive instruction is designed to train divers to dive in what the local conditions offer. The Petawawa River is typical of local diving conditions for that area. Many who are jumping on the "Lets Hang Them" band wagon don't appear to me IMO to have had the instruction or are instructors that could handle diving in waters of this condition, temps below 85 f, viz less then 10 ft and with currents. I teach now living in Florida I have stopped training of many cave diver wanna- bes who have come from warm water environments because they are lacking the skill or the comfort to dive in similar conditions as what these divers were being trained to do from the start. Dive instruction is and has been set up to teach based on the local diving environments. So having made many dives at this site and trained many studnets using it I do not critize the instructors for diving there. I was not there that day and therefore cannot make a judgement as to what the water conditions were and as to whether or not I would have made the dive. I will let the investigation deal with the instructors. As a following note the Baracuda Scuba Club has or had policies in place that required the use of diving resources when making club sanctioned dives involving students and the students have the right to decide for themselves if they are ready or not. I do not think they would have changed that policy. For those who are reading this thread your opinions are free to be expressed but question yourself as to whether you could have handled diving in similar conditions now or as a student? Because as a studnet you do make trust me dives....
I have looked into Barracuda, and they told me when i was interested in taking courses that the water would be cold, and i could wait until as long as i wanted into the summer to actually do some dives..
they leave it at your discretion. they are a good club, well priced, and the man who runs it really knows what he is doing. im sure that this is really hard for them as well. i called them last night to give them my condolences, and to sign up for next months diving class..
they leave it at your discretion. they are a good club, well priced, and the man who runs it really knows what he is doing. im sure that this is really hard for them as well. i called them last night to give them my condolences, and to sign up for next months diving class..
Firstly, my thanks to all who passed on their prayers and condolences. The drowning victim was my son. He was 23 years of age and had served 18 months in the Canadian Army. He was diving with the Barracuda Club which is considered under the aegis of the CFB Petawawa physical education programme. From another posting I read from a former director or trainer at the club he assures there have been many successful dives in the same area my son drowned in.
There are many unanswered questions. The Ontario Provincial Police are in charge of the investigation. There may or may no be a coroners inquest.
However, you have to understand, even though the media has choosen to call this a "recreational" dive, this was a group of young soldiers under the direction of a superior (a master sargeant) and master diver. These young men have undergone months of training so they will not disobey orders, no matter what the circumstance. That's what soldiers are suppose to do. Not question, is the water too cold, is the water to rough, is the visibility too limited.
Some of you suggest they could have just not trusted the master diver and not gone in the water. That is a civilians way of looking and thinking of things. That's not the army way. My questions are directed more to the necessity of the dive at this time of year, the quality of their equipment, the safety and back-up for emergency and why I haven't heard one word of sympathy or condolence from any of the instructors or master divers who own and operate this club.
The OPP divers and military divers who searched for my son for three days were furious at his unnecessary loss and could not explain the rational behind the place and time of the dive. Asked if any of them would take rookie divers (on their third dive) into the river in it's present state, all replied to a man...NO.
I understand other divers have been in the same location and found no problem with their dive and that it can be an ideal area for training. However, I must reiterate, conditions are never exactly the same, no matter how often to dive the same water. Variables in the form of Mother Nature, change conditions sometimes instantly. So why take the risk in sub-zero water, ice still visible along the edge of most of the Ottawa river, the Petawawa river was five to six feet higher than normal and was dragging debris into the water as it swelled over the banks.
Questions, yes, there are many questions, but the whole accident will come down to human error and poor decisions making. My son has born the brunt of the critism as people say he could have just said no, he didn't "trust" the dive. Try doing that in the military sometime and see where it gets you!
There are many unanswered questions. The Ontario Provincial Police are in charge of the investigation. There may or may no be a coroners inquest.
However, you have to understand, even though the media has choosen to call this a "recreational" dive, this was a group of young soldiers under the direction of a superior (a master sargeant) and master diver. These young men have undergone months of training so they will not disobey orders, no matter what the circumstance. That's what soldiers are suppose to do. Not question, is the water too cold, is the water to rough, is the visibility too limited.
Some of you suggest they could have just not trusted the master diver and not gone in the water. That is a civilians way of looking and thinking of things. That's not the army way. My questions are directed more to the necessity of the dive at this time of year, the quality of their equipment, the safety and back-up for emergency and why I haven't heard one word of sympathy or condolence from any of the instructors or master divers who own and operate this club.
The OPP divers and military divers who searched for my son for three days were furious at his unnecessary loss and could not explain the rational behind the place and time of the dive. Asked if any of them would take rookie divers (on their third dive) into the river in it's present state, all replied to a man...NO.
I understand other divers have been in the same location and found no problem with their dive and that it can be an ideal area for training. However, I must reiterate, conditions are never exactly the same, no matter how often to dive the same water. Variables in the form of Mother Nature, change conditions sometimes instantly. So why take the risk in sub-zero water, ice still visible along the edge of most of the Ottawa river, the Petawawa river was five to six feet higher than normal and was dragging debris into the water as it swelled over the banks.
Questions, yes, there are many questions, but the whole accident will come down to human error and poor decisions making. My son has born the brunt of the critism as people say he could have just said no, he didn't "trust" the dive. Try doing that in the military sometime and see where it gets you!
ShoalDiverSA
Contributor
greenhulk,
Thank you for taking time to post your thoughts on Scubaboard.
My sincerest condolences to you and your family on the loss of your son.
With best wishes,
Andrew
Thank you for taking time to post your thoughts on Scubaboard.
My sincerest condolences to you and your family on the loss of your son.
With best wishes,
Andrew
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Thank you for coming to us with this information. Our purpose for this forum is to learn from the accidents or mistakes of others. While I know it can be difficult for a recreational dive student to question the decision of an Instructor, this is most certainly the case for the military...
To needlessly lose one's young son is one of life's most terrible possibilities. I am certainly very sorry for your loss...
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