Diving and lightning

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

A friend of mine has a very strange story about a lake dive here in Oklahoma. According to him, he heard the sound like a gunshot underwater. Thinking it was his dive buddy signaling him or something, he never thought any more of it until they surfaced, saw the thunderstorm had passed over and found a rather large spot of paint missing from his tank - complete with pitting. He never felt anything, just heard the noise.

We're not sure if it was lightning or not, but to us, the stuff seems to channel underwater for a while as well.

James
 
we surfaced from a dive to find a rather frantic surface crew and a wall cloud bearing down on us in the boat....

Pulled the anchor and headed for the thinnest part we could find on the radar..... not that it did us much good :)

Then, with the viz on the surface cut to essentially zero (I could barely see the anchor pulpit!) the marine weather alarm goes off on the VHF - waterspouts indicated on radar, and they give the coords - basically on top of us :)

Fortunately it missed.... not that we would have seen it until it was 10' away anyway :)

Plenty of fire with that storm too - all you can do is get everyone below other than the helmsman, put the boat on autopilot at steerage-way speed or "best speed for conditions", tune the radar as best you can to try to see anyone else who might be out there, and stay away from anything metal.

If you get hit every electronic thing on board will be destroyed and if you're unlucky you'll get fried along with it.

(For those who don't live in the SE don't go lecturing about not going out on days when there might be a thunderstorm. If you do that around here you won't be on the water from roughly May until November - every day!)
 
Actually, I think that's backwards. Saltwater IS more conductive than fresh, this is true, but that means that electricity will travel farther in saltwater. So you are at more risk in saltwater than freshwater. It has to do with the way salt breaks down in water, the chlorine and sodium...something something something...I just remember having to ad salt to water in science class for the lightbulb to light up.
 
Falcon99 once bubbled...
A friend of mine has a very strange story about a lake dive here in Oklahoma. According to him, he heard the sound like a gunshot underwater. Thinking it was his dive buddy signaling him or something, he never thought any more of it until they surfaced, saw the thunderstorm had passed over and found a rather large spot of paint missing from his tank - complete with pitting. He never felt anything, just heard the noise.

We're not sure if it was lightning or not, but to us, the stuff seems to channel underwater for a while as well.

James

Impossible (I think) but I love the story!
 
So in a fresh water situation the lightening strike is just as likely to try and reach ground through you as the water. But in salt water it may well find the surrounding water more to it's liking and go to ground or dissipate before it reaches you.

Sound reasonable as a working explanation?
 
Actually, I think that's backwards. Saltwater IS more conductive than fresh, this is true, but that means that electricity will travel farther in saltwater. So you are at more risk in saltwater than freshwater. It has to do with the way salt breaks down in water, the chlorine and sodium...something something something...I just remember having to ad salt to water in science class for the lightbulb to light up.

The issue is NOT conductivity in the way you think it is.

As a point of issue, go look at the power lines outside. You see birds on them, right? They don't get fried, right?

The reason is NOT that they're not grounded. Its because the gradient (difference in potential) between their two feet is close enough to zero that they do not get zapped through their legs (which WOULD fry them.)

The same thing is going on here, and its the RESISTANCE that makes it happen - or not.

It is the potential difference between any two points of your body that causes current to flow. You can be at a potential of 1 million volts, and all is well, so long as ALL OF YOU is at the same potential. Provided that there is no point of your body that is able to become at a lower potential charge, no current will flow and you will not be zapped. This is how they do the Van-de-graff demonstrations where your hair stands up on end - you are at a voltage of hundreds of thousands of volts, or even more - but ALL OF YOU is - so your hair stands up trying to "seek" a lower potential thing through which it can discharge. (Fortunately the current available is vanishingly small, otherwise if you managed to complete that circuit you'd be a human lightning conductor!)

With a LOW resistance the gradient (difference in voltage across two points) is lower; the field dissipates into the water more quickly. As a consequence, the "danger zone" is much smaller; you have to be closer to the energy source to be at risk.

With a HIGH resistance the gradient is HIGHER. The field dissipates into the water more slowly.

The problem is that the field strength DIFFERENCE between your arms, or between your arm and leg, or your head and foot, is what matters. The absolute field strength in the water means nothing its the DIFFERENCE that nails you, and the relative difference in resistance between your body (relatively low) and the water (relatively low in salt water, relatively high in fresh.)

If that field strength difference is high enough, and your body resistance is low enough compared to the surrounding water, you become the conductor between the higher and lower field strengths. The result is that you fry; more accurately, the electricity either locks your muscles (including your diaphram!) and you drown or it disrupts your heart's electrical impulses, and you suffer cardiac arrest. Either way you're toast.

Drop only the hot side of an electrical cord into both fresh and salt water. Then, being EXTREMELY CAREFUL not to become the "bridge", measure the voltage between ground and the water at various radii from the current source.

You will find something amazing - in fresh water the voltage to ground a good distance from the current source is quite high, while at the same distance in salt water it is a small fraction of the fresh water value - that is, if the salt water electrode drop doesn't trip the breaker before you can do the measurement.

People get object lessons in this every year in fresh water marinas. Every year some idiot uses a cheap car battery charger on their boat to charge batteries in a fresh-water marina. The problem is that many of these have a hot chassis (no transformer), and the 12V negative is connected to (line) ground. Now if the outlet is wired backwards, or you use a non-polarized plug, there is a risk of 120V being applied to the grounded side of the boat's electrical system, and through it to the water. The high resistance of the fresh water prevents enough current from flowing to trip the dock breaker, and nobody is the wiser that the water has become energized.

If you get in the water to swim (or dive to clean the boat!) you suddenly become a path for the relatively high field-strength differential to pass through, and your body has a lower resistance through it than the water surrounding you. You get electrocuted. This can happen even if you're 20' or more from the underwater metals, in some cases (quite clean fresh water, with realtively low ion count) it can happen at 100' or more! Every year people die this way.

In salt water the field strength dissipates FAR more quickly; you have to get within a foot or two of the energized metals before you are at risk. While it can happen in a salt-water marina, it almost never does.

The same situation applies to lightning. A hit in salt water is not a big deal, unless it hits YOU (or damn close to it.) A hit in fresh water is another matter, as the "danger distance" is MUCH further away. Given that the voltage and current levels involved in a lightning strike are in the "way outrageous" category, a larger danger radius bothes me! :)

This, by the way, is why I am of the opinion that boats in fresh-water marinas in particular (and in all marinas in general) should be REQUIRED to have isolation transformers - with them a leak from the on-board systems cannot leak to energizing the water, as there is no path back to the other side of the utility feed.
 
Genesis once bubbled...
we surfaced from a dive to find a rather frantic surface crew and a wall cloud bearing down on us in the boat....
Pulled the anchor and headed for the thinnest part we could find on the radar..... not that it did us much good
Then, with the viz on the surface cut to essentially zero (I could barely see the anchor pulpit!) the marine weather alarm goes off on the VHF - waterspouts indicated on radar, and they give the coords - basically on top of us
Fortunately it missed.... not that we would have seen it until it was 10' away anyway
Plenty of fire with that storm too - all you can do is get everyone below other than the helmsman, put the boat on autopilot at steerage-way speed or "best speed for conditions", tune the radar as best you can to try to see anyone else who might be out there, and stay away from anything metal.
If you get hit every electronic thing on board will be destroyed and if you're unlucky you'll get fried along with it.
(For those who don't live in the SE don't go lecturing about not going out on days when there might be a thunderstorm. If you do that around here you won't be on the water from roughly May until November - every day!)

I always love your postings they are such of wealth of information..
As for "those who don't live in the SE"...Well I am with you...

If here in Fl we didn't go out when there will or may be a storm, you will never get any diving in...In FL there is almost always thunderstorms spread through out the state!!! To be a weather man here all you need to remember is say that it may rain tomorrow and you are a pro!! :) :) :)

just a side note: we sail catamerans....we sail in the gulf..there are times that you are much safer in the water or the boat than the sand!!!
The wet sand ecourages travel more than our huge lightening rod sticking out of the gulf....Lightening is yet just another hazard of diving or living in FL....
 
Genesis... very informative post that idiots like me can understand....

SS
 
Last year (July) there were 2 cave divers in Devil's Ear that felt the effects of a lightening strike somewhere on the river they were under. They were pretty deep (more than 60') and that's all under limestone rock as well. They both became somewhat "paralyzed' or I guess stunned would be a better word for a few moments. The story was written with both divers telling it, over on www.cavediver.net.

http://www.cavediver.net/dive_reports/dive_disp.asp?DR_ID=65

There I found the story.
 

Back
Top Bottom