Diving only in what you trained in ignorance

[Dhboner]

It is common sense to at least appreciate on some level that the environment in which you were trained may be more benign than some others around the world and that you (and your equipment) may not be ready for those conditions. Whether or not further training is required really depends on the quality of the training the diver has received to date and their willingness to seek out an experienced buddy and listen. Trust me if you make the trip up here to the Great Lakes in winter with your warm water regulator and 5mm jumpsuit, a free flow and hypothermia will be waiting for you!

 

[tursiops]

sorry forgot the experience part.. i was also thought the best way to get experience was to dive with somebody who is experienced, in most cases a dive master... or an experienced buddy. It was always emphasised that a newly minted diver should not be diving out of their training "alone" or with a freshly minted buddy

You are converging on the right answer....

 

[phoenix31tt]

And common sense unfortunately isn't so common...

And I dive a 3mm... I might be frozen before I even hit the water!!!


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[nimoh]

One caveat is that there is a fine line between gaining experience by diving with someone experienced and a trust me dive. Since this discussion is about a fresh water trained diver going in the ocean at similar depths, my point is somewhat moot.

However, there is another recent thread here on Scubaboard where a DM was recommending some relatively inexperienced divers go into deco.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/510020-beware-lunatic-divemasters-5.html

---------- Post added July 8th, 2015 at 02:24 PM ----------

And common sense unfortunately isn't so common...

And I dive a 3mm... I might be frozen before I even hit the water!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

actually, on winter dives in some areas, you go into the water to warm up

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I have seen the guidelines from the Recreational Scuba Training Council, upon which all the agencies training is based.

... as an aside, this is not a correct statement ... the RSTC only has the authority to set training standards on their members. Not all agencies are members of the RSTC ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[NAM001]

There is omre in play than just that. If you died at 100 ft and you have an ow card that has recommended max depth of 60 then the ins can say you dove beyond your certification. That if you wer certified to dive to 100 you would have a AOW cert. Any policys i have been exposed to treat diving 60 ft and less as a no risk policy past 60 ft is a higher risk and past 100 ot 130 is a lot of risk as ratings go. Dont even go into having a cave cert because you may be uninsurable. The ins forms have questions like in hte past year have you sky dived or scubadived below 60 ft. Higher risk activities are many times only covered with documented training. So die at 120 ft with an ow card and you may not be covered. do it with an aow and deep cert and you are good to go. you are right there is some insaneness in the system but diving issues are not limited to just diving.

As Texanguy said, there's different people. I think the "dive only in the same pool you did your OW in" comes from the assumption that the diver's an idiot incapable of getting out of bed without breaking their neck, and then when they do, their next of kin will sue the shop out of business. The flip side is those who assume the diver is capable of kicking against a mild current and will not have a panic attack if they see 80' on their depth gauge. So they get called "lunatic dive masters". Personally I prefer the lunatic ones: I'd rather thumb a dive because it feels too stressful than because it feels like a straightjacket.

 

[Bob DBF]

There is omre in play than just that. If you died at 100 ft and you have an ow card that has recommended max depth of 60 then the ins can say you dove beyond your certification. That if you wer certified to dive to 100 you would have a AOW cert.

An OW certification will certify you to dive within recreational limit, which I understand to be beyond both 60 and 100 feet, at 130'. There is an agency recommendation to dive at 60' or less until the OW diver has more training and/or experience, it is not a certification limit.

As for insurance, that is between you and your insurance company, mine is ok with recreational limits. A dive operation may get better rates if they place different depth limits on different certifications, which may affect your ability to dive with them if you only have an OW cert.



Bob

---------- Post added July 8th, 2015 at 01:35 PM ----------

... as an aside, this is not a correct statement ... the RSTC only has the authority to set training standards on their members. Not all agencies are members of the RSTC ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_diver_certification_organizations

I quit counting at 100, WRSTC ( worldwide RSTC ) has 8, more if you count Agency clones in different countries.

Bob

 

[NAM001]

The problem is the documentation of that training or experience. Having the AOW card stands for 100 ft generally speeking. and the deep covers to the limit of recreational diving. Of course this is an age old arguement. I tent to look at it like the ins co's recreational limit is 130 the ow trains to 60 aow traing to 100 and deep trains to 130. So although the OW is a recreatioal cert the training is not necessarily accepted for depts past 60 ft. I believe that i may have been uninsurable when i took the rec tech class . depth to 165 ft. However the insurance is good so long as you dont lie on the application. so your risk status is determined when you apply for the ins. My insurance covers me because at the time i appplied i had only a OW and had not dove in the past year. Future changes in your certification normally doesnt void the coverage. You are right in that every co has thieir rules and it is between the diver and that company. Most divers fail to understand that the ins company does not have to look things that same as optomistic divers look at things. What does seem to be somewhat consistant is that if you dive beyond your documentation....... you loose and often get your premiums refunded instead of getting the face value paid. So far what i have seen is that ow certs document for up to 60'. Things change of course.

An OW certification will certify you to dive within recreational limit, which I understand to be beyond both 60 and 100 feet, at 130'. There is an agency recommendation to dive at 60' or less until the OW diver has more training and/or experience, it is not a certification limit.

As for insurance, that is between you and your insurance company, mine is ok with recreational limits. A dive operation may get better rates if they place different depth limits on different certifications, which may affect your ability to dive with them if you only have an OW cert.



Bob

---------- Post added July 8th, 2015 at 01:35 PM ----------



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_diver_certification_organizations

I quit counting at 100, WRSTC ( worldwide RSTC ) has 8, more if you count Agency clones in different countries.

Bob

 

[boulderjohn]

I quit counting at 100, WRSTC ( worldwide RSTC ) has 8, more if you count Agency clones in different countries.

It is correct that the RSTC has only a very small number of agencies compared to the total available, but I would guess that relative handful issues 80% of the world's certifications each year.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

And common sense unfortunately isn't so common...

And I dive a 3mm... I might be frozen before I even hit the water!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have a spare drysuit .

---------- Post added July 8th, 2015 at 05:39 PM ----------

... as an aside, this is not a correct statement ... the RSTC only has the authority to set training standards on their members. Not all agencies are members of the RSTC ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

On top of that is that it does not set standards. It issues recommendations and publishes guidelines for it's members. Which they can ignore if they want with no repercussions. Look at the number of OW divers who do not fit the RSTC definition by any stretch and still were issued cards.

---------- Post added July 8th, 2015 at 05:40 PM ----------

SEI OW Divers have a recommended max depth of 100 ft. They are cautioned to build up to that.