Donating Blood

[sibermike7]

Yeah, but that's when you were young and invulnerable -- and a Marine! Heck, you guys never feel anything, especially not a little ol' unit of blood.

And by the way, thank you for your service, too.

You are welcome.

 

[Steve in Seattle]

Steve, I'm not sure what I said that you disagree with, unless you are saying that whether or not a blood-donating diver perceives any decrease in his or her performance depends upon the donor's body size more than any other factor.

Yep, that's it.

When I read your first post it seemed like the objective impacts of donation were mentioned but you placed emphasis on the subjective bio-feed-back awareness that people operating near their max O2 levels would encounter.

I completely agree with your logic on a person's ability to subjectively measure their abilities during strenuous exercise, but as any biofeedback will show those judgments can be off substantially without objective measuring. When I was in Canada's Olympic development program for kayaking years ago we had some biofeedback sessions using HR, lung volume, and blood O2 readings during max stress tests... the results were pretty shocking for some. After a few months of monitoring HR during recovery periods (and adjusting training) we repeated stress tests and found most people was MUCH more likely to indicate a reasonable HR/effort/performance level during the test. Biofeedback really helps people pick up the fine points of their max HR, VO2 max, current HR, etc...

I just disagree with the idea that the more fit person will in general "notice" a lower performance just because they're more in touch with the reality of their fitness... looking at the mass of heme removed by WB donation I have to believe fit, lighter, people notice more of a change than "larger" blood donors because the total impact on their system can be % wise substantially more. In the context of diving I simply don't see everyone as pinicles of fitness... there are some VERY large divers, and that's why I brought up the issue. The science of properly calculating blood volume in obese patients has fueled several papers for surgical reasons, but it also applies here.

Apologies if I came across too abrupt. We agree there are both components of any sensory issue (physical changes, but also neurological perception/interpretation)... its just that I feel the evidence is strongly in favor of larger people being physically less impacted by a 1 pint blood donation... not that they are so neurologically unfamiliar with their dive performance that they wouldn't notice.

No a big deal, I just feel that most people don't recognize how much impact whole blood donation can be to fit/thin people.
20% blood loss isn't just volume... it's 20% of your O2-carrying heme, 20% of your platelets and other clotting factors, 20% of your antibodies, maybe 10% of your WBCs, etc... Each items take 6 hours to 12 weeks to fully recover so its important to keep that in mind.

Ultimately, when it comes down to the safety of a diver, the "perceived" performance they feel is much less important than the "actual" physiological performance their blood can supply.

 

[Walter]

Had an issue or just learned about the recommendation?

I heard it in a DAN seminar at an instructor convention.

 

[Jersey]

Timely, thanks! As a long time blood, pheresis and granulocyte donor, I've never had any problems or thought of any issues related to diving. That said, I did a double unit pheresis donation last afternoon and while washing dishes after dinner got incredibly dizzy, so much that I leaned into the sink to support myself until it passed - about a minute. Rethinking scheduling diving within a couple days after donations... Felt fine all day, ate regularly, no problems during donation, normal dinner, 4 oz red wine w/ food...must be age catching up with me.

 

[BradEllis]

I've donated blood off and on throughout my adult life, and with more frequency during the last year and a half. Each time has been one unit of whole blood and other than maybe being a bit tired the next day, i've never noticed any adverse effects. I'm sure that i've been diving within a day or two of donation within that time period, and I've never noticed anything unusual.

However, about a month and a half ago, I decided to donate two units of red blood cells. I donated around 5:30 in the afternoon and by 10:00 the same night, I was feeling quite tired. When I woke up the next morning, I could barely get out of bed and had absolutely no energy the entire day. I actually slept close to 4 hours on and off throughout the day. Around 8:30 or 9:00 on the night after the donation, I started to regain my energy, but still didn't feel quite myself for about 3 more days. I certainly wouldn't have been safe diving on the day after the donation.

In the days after the donation, I did come down with a pretty severe cold, so the tiredness could have been caused at least partially by the cold, but of course I dont' have any way to really know as this was the first time I had done the two unit red blood cell donation.

I am planning to do the two unit donation when I am eligible again to see if the effects are similar when I am more healthy!

Brad Ellis
DiveSports.com

 

[wve]

I just disagree with the idea that the more fit person will in general "notice" a lower performance just because they're more in touch with the reality of their fitness...

I'm not saying that fit people notice a difference only because they are more "in touch" (though that may also be true). I'm saying that fit people sometimes notice a difference because they intentionally approach their physical limits more than sedentary people.

Fit people are much more likely to dip into their physical "reserves," whereas unfit people hardly ever approach any limits which would require calling upon their reserves. Therefore, a fit person is more likely than a sedentary person to notice a loss of reserve capacity after giving away some blood.

I think we agree on this. You are talking about the actual physical capacity (objective), and I was talking about the self-assessment of that capacity (subjective).

My original point was that diving a couple days after blood donation is safe, but "safe" does not mean you won't feel anything. Most people won't, but some people might -- and now we have given them some reasons why.

 

[lowviz]

Rethinking scheduling diving within a couple days after donations...

That's my new plan also.

must be age catching up with me.

Not going down without a good fight...

 

[wve]

However, about a month and a half ago, I decided to donate two units of red blood cells.

I'm a little surprised you were allowed to do that. Do you have a special blood type that the blood bank needed?

 

[Jersey]

That's my new plan also.



Not going down without a good fight...

Trust me, I am fighting age all the way...I'm just too dumb to give up now!

WVE - if Brad is doing pheresis as opposed to whole blood, 2 product/units red cells would not be uncommon. I've done that a couple times. They (Amer Red Cross, Phila branch) once took 3 products from me, without asking or telling me. I did go home and right to bed after that. Apparently my signature is implied consent for any/all product they want to take from me. And yes - I do have desirable blood type - O neg (universal donor), plus apparently negative for other markers they check. I get frequent calls for granulocyte donations and have been called twice to come in for further testing for bone marrow. I tell people my blood must be like a fine wine!

Seriously though, I would urge anyone who can donate to please do so. Technology is grand and we can make many replacement body parts, but we have not come up with an alternative for blood. All the monetary donations in the world cannot combat a blood shortage. Whole blood takes maybe 20 minutes. Pheresis does take a couple hours, but what are a couple hours to save a life?

...and no, I do not work for the Red Cross, but if I needed a pint, I hope someone will step up for me.

 

[NudeDiver]

It's interesting to me that usually people "donate" blood, but then the agency (such as Red Cross) to whom it is donated turns around and sells it to someone else (such as a hospital), who will (usually) charge the person who gets it. While I realize that such agencies do add value, they're doing so to something that already has some value - which is why it is even collected in the first place.

I'm guessing that blood bank shortages could be decreased if they PAID people for this valuable product - I bet $50/pint would entice a lot of people. Of course, I also think people should be able to sell off their organs to any willing buyer - so I realize that my view is socially unacceptable. In the meantime - the shortages continue...