dry suit hover need instructor help

[s7595]

scuba dad
can you expand more on the breathing control.yes it is padi course and when I pass the course ,bc for bouyancy control.the other members have talked about weight,I belive I am over weighted ,yet after burping dry suit 2 times ,need more weight to sink. next time I go diveing going to back off weight (last dive 38lbs on a 165lb body).any tips to sink with less weight with dry suit and underware ,rember these lakes are very cold and I need to were the underware as I am a cold life person ,i winter always ware more clothes than most of my friends.thanks again for all the help

 

[String]

No idea about your build but 38lbs sounds a hell of a lot of weight to be carrying even in a drysuit with thermals etc. Typically here its 22-28lbs max.

Breathing control means your lungs can have 5-6kg of lift capacity so you could have a different of 6kg in lift between empty and full lungs, therefore it makes sense NOT to breathe full in and full out or buoyancy will be shot to pieces.

My method for levelling is descend and add air to remove squeeze then when i want to stop, full breath in, put air in suit whilst breathing out until im nice and comfortable and can breathe normally. Likewise i use breath control to go up/down over obstacles.

Obviously CCR divers need not apply to this

 

[SubMariner]

scuba dad
can you expand more on the breathing control.yes it is padi course and when I pass the course ,bc for bouyancy control.the other members have talked about weight,I belive I am over weighted ,yet after burping dry suit 2 times ,need more weight to sink. next time I go diveing going to back off weight (last dive 38lbs on a 165lb body).any tips to sink with less weight with dry suit and underware ,rember these lakes are very cold and I need to were the underware as I am a cold life person ,i winter always ware more clothes than most of my friends.thanks again for all the help

First of all, let's not get into the whole "Drysuit vs BC for buoyancy control" issue. If the course is indeed a PADI course, it is taught that the suit is used for buoyancy control u/w, and the BC only at the surface.

For the record, the it CAN be done, safely & effectively, it's merely a matter of practice & becoming proficient. So let's just get off this merry-go-round & stick to the issue at hand.

What type of drysuit are you using? You may be overweighted if you are using anything other than a neoprene drysuit. If not, you may need to adjust your trim & move the weight around. E.g.: instead of having it all on your waist, what about using a steel tank, or putting the weight in the bc, on the tank, etc.?

Another factor is your breathing pattern. Long, slow inhales & exhales are the rule for proper buoyancy control regardless of which method (suit or BC) you are using. And, as others have mentioned, if you make an adjustment, make it small/gradual... and WAIT for the result, just like you would do if you were diving in warm water using your BC.

Anyways, relax. Practice DOES make perfect.

 

[Boogie711]

Aww - SubMariner - don't tell me you've taken a swig of the PADI Koolaid too?

First of all, let's not get into the whole "Drysuit vs BC for buoyancy control" issue. If the course is indeed a PADI course, it is taught that the suit is used for buoyancy control u/w, and the BC only at the surface.

For the record, the it CAN be done, safely & effectively, it's merely a matter of practice & becoming proficient.

Yes, it CAN be done. Whether it's safe or effective is another point completely. Dynamic instability is dynamic instability - there's no arguing your way out of that, no more than trying to claim that the sky is green. I'm sure you don't want to infer that S7595 is too stupid to know how to inflate both a DS and a BC, right? So then why suggest that he only use one? ESPECIALLY if the PADI "solution" is so obviously sub-optimal.

Secondly - S7595, at 38 lbs, I will be willing to wager good money that you're overweighted. At 165 lbs and wearing 38 lbs, I'd be willing to wager a WHOLE LOT of good money that you're really overweighted.

First off - calm down in the water. DO...NOT...MOVE. This is harder than it sounds. Cross your ankles so you're not subconsciously finning. Now exhale... all the way. DON'T MOVE. Remember - you have an air source. You don't need to inhale before you duck under the water line.

 

[String]

A Whether it's safe or effective is another point completely.

Its both safe and effective. Your point is what exactly ?

Dynamic instability is dynamic instability - there's no arguing your way out of that, no more than trying to claim that the sky is green.

OVerweighted is causing this, nothing to do with choice of buoyancy.

I'm sure you don't want to infer that S7595 is too stupid to know how to inflate both a DS and a BC, right?

Who said anything about stupid? Contrary to what some cults claim there is often MORE than one way to solve a problem. Using 1 source for buoyancy and managing 1 air source is simplifying an issue - KISS etc etc.

So then why suggest that he only use one? ESPECIALLY if the PADI "solution" is so obviously sub-optimal.

Sub optimal in what way? How is it obvious ? This guy from what i can gather is single cylinder with no obvious issues as to why a drysuit shouldnt be used.

 

[gcbryan]

I think you are probably overweighted but only because you mentioned that you are diving in fresh water and depending on your undergarment it's possible but not likely that you are correctly weighted.

I have one undergarment (that I no longer us) that required an additional 10 lbs of weight to compensate over my current undergarment. But unless you have an extremely thick and heavy undergarment I think it's very likely that you are overweighted.

BC vs Drysuit isn't really a factor. I've done both ways and can do either well. I'm still trying to make up my mind as to which I like better. If you are correctly weighed you are using a lot of air anyway.

 

[s7595]

boogie711. I do keep my fins still and exhale when I am descending.I am going to try less weight tommorow evening in a river that has a fish bowl.my dry suit is a tri-lame from pinnacle,it seems to be quite thick material ,well made suit.I belive the breathing is the key .

 

[SubMariner]

Step AWAY from the keyboard.

The thread originator just needs some answers, not an arguement.

So let's just work with him to solve his problem, ok?

We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion, already in progress.

 

[samsp]

I have a suit that is a bit big for me, and I find that it can take some time to get the air out of it at the surface. Even after I burp the suit, I find there can be quite a bit of air left. When you get in the water, is there a lot of air comming out of the exhaust valve?

One technique which may work for you is to don the suit, then go for a dip in the water, this has two effects - it cools you down so you can take time putting on your gear, you then are in less of a rush and so more relaxed. The other benefit is you can open the neck seal and let the air out at that time without the gloves and hood getting in the way.

Get into the water a little early at the beginning of the dive. Take your time getting your mask and fins on. Use this time to relax. Otherwise you can be more tense, breathing more heavily and keeping more air in your lungs, making you more bouyant, so you add more weight to get down. If overweight, it then becomes harder to control the boyancy as you need a lot of air to compensate. The more air you need to compensate the weight you have, the more its boyancy is subject to change based on depth.

Your original mail talks about problems just floating mid-water. Is the corking then or at the end of the dive? If its at the end, are you venting enough from the suit. You usually have to rotate your body to the right [when horizontal] to get the air to burp out of your suit, and leave the valve fully open. Based on the position of your left arm with respect to your body, you can control the burping of air from your suit.

This good thread on boyancy was posted a while ago:
http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?threadid=55374&s=

Sam

 

[s7595]

samsp
thanks for the idea's.this is whatI do ,without scuba unit on I pull next seal and burp the suit 2 times.then I don scuba unit and enter water,as we are shore diveing ,usualy a long surface swim follows.I have tried differant postions of the exhast valve,I like it closed tight and find it very easy just reach over and vent.my problem is hovering doing nothing else,I can get netural and swim okay .if I need to vent alittle can do that okay while swiming.this evening going for a dive with less weight and a new dm friend ,will report on dive.