Drysuit disaster from La Jolla to DC...!

[Nick_Radov]

I too disagree on the suit for buoyancy issue. When decending with an empty BC/Wing, one will need to add air to the drysuit to prevent squeeze and provide warmth within the first 10meters (and again as the dive progresses deeper)...this air serves double duty as it also provides buoyancy. There should be no reason to add air to one's BC/wing when one is already adding air to prevent squeeze and create warmth.

No. As you add gas to the drysuit during a descent the gas volume within the suit should remain constant. When properly used the drysuit doesn't supply any more buoyancy at 100 ft than at the surface.

The BC/wing should be used for buoyancy if/when there is enough air to prevent squeeze and allow for thermal comfort but the diver requires more air to maintain neutral buoyancy....in this case, typically minimal air will be required to be added to the BC/wing...if a lot of air is still needed to become/maintain neutrally buoyant then the diver is overweighted and/or the diver is losing air from their suit (usually due to poor trim/body position and control of spacial orientation).

While it is possible to do this and make it kind of work with a single tank, it is not optimal and leads to bad habits that often have to be unlearned later. With a single 80 ft^3 tank you only have about 6 lbs of gas weight so it only takes a little extra buoyancy from a BC (wing) and/or drysuit to balance out the gas weight. You can add that much extra gas to a drysuit without causing huge problems, although it does increase the risk of an accidental feet-up rapid ascent. Much easier to just squirt a little gas into the BC and then gradually dump that out during the dive as your tank empties out. While this does mean managing two independent buoyancy sources this becomes super easy second nature after a few dives.

In practice the real problem with using a drysuit for buoyancy comes up when divers begin doing more complex dives with double back tanks and stages. The total gas weight might be 30+ lbs and trying to get that much buoyancy out of a drysuit is ridiculous. Only a minority of divers will ever do those complex dives, but why not do it right from the start?

 

[Curious_George]

The only thing I’ve not seen mentioned is don’t forget to squat down and burp the neck seal before you first go in. Many will say this is a newby technique, and probably rightly so. But if you are ascending out of control, it’s likely you are putting too much air in the suit. As others said, make sure all extra air is removed from the suit at all times. And don’t add air unless needed to avoid uncomfortable squeeze.

The chance of uncontrolled ascent is less when you have minimal air in the suit. As you get a better fitted suit and more experience feeling and controlling the suit bubble you can start diving with more air in the suit so you will be warmer/less squeezed.

Lastly, don’t go to the next step (deeper dives) until you’ve mastered the shallow water diving. Should be able to easily maintain controlled descent/ascent between 10’ and the surface before progressing further.

Your attitude sounds great and I’m sure many of us would be happy to dive with you - just advance your skills safely.

 

[Diverantz]

What type of suit have you been renting?
TriLaminate, Crushed Neoprene, "Fusion" ...?
Socks or attached boots?

Diving with insufficient undergarments and compensating with extra air in attempt to maintain warmth is going to be problematic. Without the airtrappimg "cells" of the undergarment, you will not get efficient insulation and the bulk of that air volume will be able to redily move around and find the highest point.

I am newish to drysuit and am still working out my particular "style", but find that running my Fusion suit with the exhaust at or close to completely open and adding the bare-minimum of air to stop squeeze and allow for reasonable warmth works best for me. Obviously, I'm in the BC, for buoyancy control camp - it is ingrained in me since that is how I dive all the time, DS or not. I also find it easier to dump air quickly from the kidney-dump on my wing - especially if I get feet-up, which renders the shoulder dump on the DS mostly ineffective since the air is higher in the suit.

If I'm remembering correctly, the first rental back in La Jolla was a trilaminate while the second and third attempts, in which I used the same type of suit, is a fusion. Socks. Rock boots. So the issue in the last two attempts was, I've got too much excess sock material stuffed into that rock boot, and then when the drysuit is overinflated and air travels into my feet, quickly because I'm trying to 'simulate' inversion, for practice, it blows off the boot and the fin. I'm going to try a new suit, probably one I order MTM and keep practicing in the pool. I'm too young or old to die in an upside down drysuit accident. It would be so embarrassing.

 

[Zef]

Ok you win, but...

In practice the real problem with using a drysuit for buoyancy comes up when divers begin doing more complex dives with double back tanks and stages.

I would argue that tech diving is not a further progression from recreational diving, it is instead a unique niche...a determined/deliberate turn off what is considered to be the standard recreational diving path, towards and into a totally different genre of diving. The same is true for commercial diving, it resembles recreational diving in so far that one is breathing a gas mixture underwater with something on the head/over the face to fascilitate vision in the water, but there are radical differences that require significant amounts of training, knowledge, and skill development...as is true for tech diving. While one could strap a doubles setup onto their back and dive with it within the limits of recreational diving, there is very little need for it. Often, when we consider a double tank setup and stage bottles (as you introduced in your comment) it involves gas planning for phases of a dive, decompression, and other topics that go beyond what is considered standard recreational diving.

Only a minority of divers will ever do those complex dives, but why not do it right from the start?

Your comment implies there is only one "right" way to do things. What committee decided that and who elected them to represented the entire diving public?...if that way works for you, then great, but stop fooling yourself that the dogmatic practices that you have adopted for the type of diving you have chosen to engage in are universal and should be applied to the entire world of diving.

-Z

 

[Outbound]

… While this does mean managing two independent buoyancy sources this becomes super easy second nature after a few dives.
…. Only a minority of divers will ever do those complex dives, but why not do it right from the start?

Since it’s so easy to learn to manage two buoyancy controls, and since most divers don’t dive doubles, why is it such a big deal? Again, dive however you want. And I certainly agree that you will pretty much have to use your BCD if you dive doubles. But it’s not a problem at all to use your drysuit for buoyancy if diving singles, it’s not more dangerous, and it doesn’t build bad habits (since, as you write, it’s easy to learn how to manage two sources of buoyancy control with just a few dives).

 

[Outbound]

If I'm remembering correctly, the first rental back in La Jolla was a trilaminate while the second and third attempts, in which I used the same type of suit, is a fusion. Socks. Rock boots. So the issue in the last two attempts was, I've got too much excess sock material stuffed into that rock boot, and then when the drysuit is overinflated and heads into my feet, it blows off the boot and the fin. I'm going to try a new suit, probably one I order MTM and keep practicing in the pool. I'm too young or old to die in an upside down drysuit accident. It would be so embarrassing.

You REALLY have to inflate the crap out of a Fusion to get so much air in it that it will blow off rock boots and fins. You were probably massively overweighted.

 

[rx7diver]

I agree with others above who suggest that using ill-fitting suits is a key reason why you are struggling.

I read Dick Long's book, and chatted at length with trusted folks who were very experienced at doing the types of dives (on Great Lakes deep shipwrecks) I was hoping to do. And then I took their advice and purchased a custom suit that had a long history of working well for that type of diving.

And then I went diving. No certification course. I think I had an easy time of it because my custom suit fit extremely well, which meant I could concentrate on other things.

My suggestion: Commit, and purchase a properly-fitting suit (preferably a custom suit) ASAP. (Make sure the suit is fitted to you to accommodate the undergarments you will be wearing for the dives you hope to do.)

Good luck.

ETA: Do you already own "heavier" fins (e.g., Scubapro Jet Fins)? I think that using heavy fins is a better solution than using ankle weights. Also, I wore my Scubapro Stab Jacket (that I used with my wetsuit) with my drysuit at first. Then I replaced that SSJ with a new, larger SSJ and used that with my drysuit for a while. So, I never felt the need to spend $$ on another BCD, or anythig else, at first.

rx7diver

 

[-JD-]

If I'm remembering correctly, the first rental back in La Jolla was a trilaminate while the second and third attempts, in which I used the same type of suit, is a fusion. Socks. Rock boots. So the issue in the last two attempts was, I've got too much excess sock material stuffed into that rock boot, and then when the drysuit is overinflated and heads into my feet, it blows off the boot and the fin. I'm going to try a new suit, probably one I order MTM and keep practicing in the pool. I'm too young or old to die in an upside down drysuit accident. It would be so embarrassing.

(Confirmed from a conversation with Whites Drywear last weekend) With the Fusion suits, you want the socks "pulled up" so that there is no extra sock in the boot. That might leave you with some excess sock around the ankles - gaiters might be easiest solution for that, but I have 8" high boots that do enough for me.

I have to agree with @Outbound that (assuming you have the right size) the Fusion is pretty forgiving and overweighting may be driving overinflation.

Confned water (pool) is a great place to figure out your weighting and experiment with DS vs BC for buoyancy control. Also so you dont overshoot when inflatimg - small shot of air, wait a bit, repeat as necessary.

 

[Diverantz]

I agree with others above who suggest that using ill-fitting suits is a key reason why you are struggling.

I read Dick Long's book, and chatted at length with trusted folks who were very experienced at doing the types of dives (on Great Lakes deep shipwrecks) I was hoping to do. And then I took their advice and purchased a custom suit that had a long history of working well for that type of diving.

And then I went diving. No certification course. I think I had an easy time of it because my custom suit fit extremely well, which meant I could concentrate on other things.

My suggestion: Commit, and purchase a properly-fitting suit (preferably a custom suit) ASAP. (Make sure the suit is fitted to you to accommodate the undergarments you will be wearing for the dives you hope to do.)

Good luck.

ETA: Do you already own "heavier" fins (e.g., Scubapro Jet Fins)? I think that using heavy fins is a better solution than using ankle weights. Also, I wore my Scubapro Stab Jacket (that I used with my wetsuit) with my drysuit at first. Then I replaced that SSJ with a new, larger SSJ and used that with my drysuit for a while. So, I never felt the need to spend $$ on another BCD, or anythig else, at first.

rx7diver

You REALLY have to inflate the crap out of a Fusion to get so much air in it that it will blow off rock boots and fins. You were probably massively overweighted.

Possibly, but I also recall being pretty conservative with the inflator button. I could be wrong with my definition of "conservative." Maybe I somehow messed up the sock: rockboot: fin ensemble, but when you're a student you always think, if I'm really fowling up here somebody's going to see it and say something. That didn't happen in any of these cases. Could be that's not the scuba instruction way. They're a learn-by-doing lot, it seems. I guess they all know how to resuscitate you. Luckily there seems to be one more drysuit rental option in the greater area, so the experiments can continue-

 

[<*)))><]

Diverantz Im about to start my drysuit journey in a couple months. Speaking as someone with ridiculously low proprioception I really really admire your attitude and tenacity!

Im anticipating much pool time for myself...........