Environmental Police

[MASS-Diver]

Read that again:

"in which he has reasonal cause to believe [fish] are [possessed]"

They need to suspect you have fish & game... not that they suspect it to be illegal fish & game.

Thanks you Jeff! Finally some sense in this thread. If you are diving (espically if you have a bag or numbers on your flag), of course they have a right to search you! The same goes if you are striper fishing. If you are out surf casting and you are sitting on a big cooler - they can look in it - the EP don't need someone to report you.

These rules are a good thing - it's the only way to enforce the regulations. Just because you are rec diving, doesn't mean you aren't part of the fishery. Just like the commerical guys, if you are out there lobstering, they can inspect you.

 

[warpig]

The best thing to do is be polite, take names and report the incident.

i completely agree with you deerman; no cop is worth any amount of litigation.

but that wasnt my point; my point is that an EP who doesnt readily identify himself and starts finger-banging someone's vehicle/boat/personal equipment might find get a little more than he bargained for; and rightfully so.

(taken from florida's "Justifiable Use of Force" laws as just one example; and i'd say it's safe to assume these closely reflect all the other states' laws)

776.031 Use of force in defense of others.--A person is justified in the use of force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to prevent or terminate such other's trespass on, or other tortious or criminal interference with, either real property other than a dwelling or personal property, lawfully in his or her possession or in the possession of another who is a member of his or her immediate family or household or of a person whose property he or she has a legal duty to protect. However, the person is justified in the use of deadly force only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony.

776.08 Forcible felony.--"Forcible felony" means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.

 

[MASS-Diver]

i completely agree with you deerman; no cop is worth any amount of litigation.

but that wasnt my point; my point is that an EP who doesnt readily identify himself and starts finger-banging someone's vehicle/boat/personal equipment might find get a little more than he bargained for; and rightfully so.

(taken from florida's "Justifiable Use of Force" laws as just one example; and i'd say it's safe to assume these closely reflect all the other states' laws)

776.031 . However, the person is justified in the use of deadly force only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony.

776.08 Forcible felony.--"Forcible felony" means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.

More BS in this thread....... That law is pretty unique to FL and certainly does not apply here in MA. In MA, someone can come into your house in the middle of the night and come into uyour bedroom and steal your wife's wedding ring off the bed stand. Unless he has weapon, you are big trouble if you shoot him. Furthermore, if you catch someone in your house, you have an obligation to flee, you have no right to even stand your ground. Clearly, attacking a cop for touching your boat is a pretty stupid idea.

 

[warpig]

mass diver; i apologize in advance for making you look stupid. if you had you taken 2 seconds to quickly google the topic, you'd probably re-think your reply:

In MA, someone can come into your house in the middle of the night and come into uyour bedroom and steal your wife's wedding ring off the bed stand.

no they cant; that's illegal. it's called larceny. i know mass has some funny laws, but larceny is illegal in all 50 states.

Furthermore, if you catch someone in your house, you have an obligation to flee, you have no right to even stand your ground.

obligation to flee? i have no right to stand my ground? you need to start checking those nitrox mixes... If you are in your own home, there is no duty to retreat, but you may use deadly force only to repel an intruder's deadly force attack against you or your family.
http://www.massgunlaw.com/hot_issues_in_massachusetts_fire.htm

Unless he has weapon, you are big trouble if you shoot him.

you seriously have a funny (actually its not funny at all) way of interpreting laws:
you may use deadly force only to repel an intruder's deadly force attack against you or your family
says NOTHING about "holding a weapon". fists are weapons too, young grasshopper.

Clearly, attacking a cop for touching your boat is a pretty stupid idea.

thanks for stating the obvious! can we get back to the facts now?

i never said i would hit a uniformed officer standing near a marked vehicle looking in my boat.

i was talking about hitting a man in no uniform, wearing no apparent badge or patch, stepping out of an obscure location, and without stating his business or affiliation, start to rummage through my boat and personal property!

see the difference?

and dont for one second try to convince me if i was in your bedroom in the middle of the night stealing your wife's wedding ring that you'd 'flee'; or if i attacked you or your wife that you 'wouldnt stand your ground'. talk about bs...

 

[ScubaNorth]

More BS in this thread....... That law is pretty unique to FL and certainly does not apply here in MA. In MA, someone can come into your house in the middle of the night and come into uyour bedroom and steal your wife's wedding ring off the bed stand. Unless he has weapon, you are big trouble if you shoot him. Furthermore, if you catch someone in your house, you have an obligation to flee, you have no right to even stand your ground. Clearly, attacking a cop for touching your boat is a pretty stupid idea.

OK well that's it- I for one am certainly not dragging some EP to Florida so I can kick his behind for touching my boat. One I don't have a boat, and two I am a wimp. So this option is out. Honestly I know this goes against the norm but as far as I am concerned search away, I have nothing to hide and I really don't mind as long as they respect my stuff.

If someone wants to sneak into my bedroom and steal my wife's wedding ring (she never takes it off) they are welcome to it, but they best not take it off her, or wake me up and they are certainly obligated to take the kids too, I am not getting up and fixing them breakfast just because the wife got herself stolen.

And last but not least isn't a Lobster a memeber of the phyllum Arthropoda and therefore very loosely called a fish. That law clearly says fish and not Arthropoda.(OK I was a finance major so please no biology correction, I am joking).

I know easy for me to say since I never catch any Lobsters anyway, but watch out if I find a starfish recipe.
:shiner:

 

[johlar]

OK well that's it- I for one am certainly not dragging some EP to Florida so I can kick his behind for touching my boat. One I don't have a boat, and two I am a wimp. So this option is out. Honestly I know this goes against the norm but as far as I am concerned search away, I have nothing to hide and I really don't mind as long as they respect my stuff.

If someone wants to sneak into my bedroom and steal my wife's wedding ring (she never takes it off) they are welcome to it, but they best not take it off her, or wake me up and they are certainly obligated to take the kids too, I am not getting up and fixing them breakfast just because the wife got herself stolen.

And last but not least isn't a Lobster a memeber of the phyllum Arthropoda and therefore very loosely called a fish. That law clearly says fish and not Arthropoda.(OK I was a finance major so please no biology correction, I am joking).

I know easy for me to say since I never catch any Lobsters anyway, but watch out if I find a starfish recipe.
:shiner:

So whose diving with me in Plymouth this weekend? Might be kind of interesting. I've got a bunch of choices:
ignore them
videotape them
challenge them
hit them (not going to happen, I'm old and slow)
call a lawyer
relax and enjoy it
give up diving

any others?

 

[MASS-Diver]

you seriously have a funny (actually its not funny at all) way of interpreting laws:
you may use deadly force only to repel an intruder's deadly force attack against you or your family
says NOTHING about "holding a weapon". fists are weapons too, young grasshopper.



i was talking about hitting a man in no uniform, wearing no apparent badge or patch, stepping out of an obscure location, and without stating his business or affiliation, start to rummage through my boat and personal property!

see the difference?

and dont for one second try to convince me if i was in your bedroom in the middle of the night stealing your wife's wedding ring that you'd 'flee'; or if i attacked you or your wife that you 'wouldnt stand your ground'. talk about bs...

Dude, you are misreading the law, it has to be a "deadly force attack" - a guy in your house without a weapon is not a deadly force attack. Also, the duty to retreat law is very controversial and the law will go after you if you have a way out. I was taught this both the NRA and S&W courses I have taken.

FISTS ARE NOT A DEADLY WEAPON! Sorry, that's the law (that's why you always carry mace too)!!! If you kill an unarmerd person in MA you could be in serious trouble. This ain't FL.

BTW - I have a CLass A LTC.

 

[MASS-Diver]

So whose diving with me in Plymouth this weekend? Might be kind of interesting. I've got a bunch of choices:
ignore them
videotape them
challenge them
hit them (not going to happen, I'm old and slow)
call a lawyer
relax and enjoy it
give up diving

any others?

Here's another one (that has worked for me) AFTER they see your license and know you have no shorts - talk to them. Most of these people are actually good guys/gals. Ask them the questions in this thread. Everytime I run into the EP guys on the NS they are hardasses untill they realize I'm clean, then they chill out and you can shoot some bull with them.

 

[warpig]

w/e im still gonna shoot the intruder.

just concede the fact you'd kick an intruder's arse? at least throw the remote at him? something? please?

Dude, you are misreading the law, it has to be a "deadly force attack" - a guy in your house without a weapon is not a deadly force attack. Also, the duty to retreat law is very controversial and the law will go after you if you have a way out. I was taught this both the NRA and S&W courses I have taken.

FISTS ARE NOT A DEADLY WEAPON! Sorry, that's the law (that's why you always carry mace too)!!! If you kill an unarmerd person in MA you could be in serious trouble. This ain't FL.

BTW - I have a CLass A LTC.

 

[matt_unique]

I was at a wedding this past Spring and my gfriend and I were seated with a cop. The conversation came up about this very topic - use of deadly force laws in Mass. This cop verified what Mass Diver said - evern if someone breaks into your house and comes into your bedroom in the middle of the night - if you shoot them - you will spend the rest of your life in jail. You have an obligation to flee and do everything you possibly can to avoid using deadly force. Only under obvious circumstances - where your life (family etc.) is on the line may you use deadly forece. i.e. You and the wife are cornered by a guy about to chop your head off with an axe - only under those blatant circumstances can you use deadly force - according to this officer I spoke to.

--Matt