Fatality Cabo San Lucas March 3

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

I may have been wrong about possible legal actions. Looks like enough influence was used to secure the gear, tanks, remaining gas for lab testing, and CO is still the suspected problem. He does have a lawyer pursuing, but no clarification on the shop that filled the tanks.

I don't see how this is anything new, except he is stating he is taking legal action, which if you didn't see that coming you didn't read any of the previous articles. If indeed they did shutdown the shop that filled the tanks, it wasn't Sunshine Dive and Charter.

Hey Dan, I dont know why I did not think of this before but I called PADI and was told By customer Service That Sunshine Dive and Charters Teaching status has been suspended and that they have been taken off the PADI website because there Quality Management Department is investigation a Quality Issue.
Now that is not a paper work mishap like I saw in an earler post its an safty issue with that shop.

JohnZDiver, when I look right now on PADI's website I see Sunshine listed as a 5 star dive shop, complete with contact and website information, please go look it up now. Who exactly did you speak with in customer service because I would certainly like to give them a call and ask them the same question, and if it is true why they are still listed as a 5 star PADI shop?

Don, while I guess it is possible since burning oil in the oil based lubricants could cause CO, I think this is highly unlikely. Have there actually been any documented cases of this actually happening with an electic compressor?
 
I don't see how this is anything new, except he is stating he is taking legal action, which if you didn't see that coming you didn't read any of the previous articles. If indeed they did shutdown the shop that filled the tanks, it wasn't Sunshine Dive and Charter.
Oh, I was surprised to read that he really is taking legal action, or at least pursuing it with a San Diego lawyer. Suing an entity in another state is difficult enough, then collecting - if they have assets left after a fight, but suing in another country is especially challenging.

And then there is the issue of it being in Mexico as Captain Ray shared from his experiences. Their country, their rules, their methods, certainly an uphill battle all the way. When I go to Mexico, I really assume that I have no rights and try to protect myself from any angle. Usually that's easy, as they want our tourist business - but hazards do exist.

JohnZDiver, when I look right now on PADI's website I see Sunshine listed as a 5 star dive shop, complete with contact and website information, please go look it up now. Who exactly did you speak with in customer service because I would certainly like to give them a call and ask them the same question, and if it is true why they are still listed as a 5 star PADI shop?
:idk:

As I've mentioned, blamstorming is not allowed here so we should not be trying to blame anyone. If we can find the cause, that would help us in avoiding similar problems perhaps - but mostly it's just discussion of facts here if we discover any. Prevention of CO poisoning is the same for me regardless of who I dive with, where, etc. Check every tank before diving.

Don, while I guess it is possible since burning oil in the oil based lubricants could cause CO, I think this is highly unlikely. Have there actually been any documented cases of this actually happening with an electic compressor?
Not unlikely at all. Well studied, documented, and all too common in warmer climates and busy compressors. There are other possible sources tho, yet for us divers, it doesn't really matter. (1) We have to accept that the risks exist, and (2) the only way to avoid the risk is tank test. No other approach is fail safe.

I have certainly seen readings above 5ppm in the last 3 dive destinations I've visited since I started testing. I only wish I had started earlier when I traveled to more places.
 
Well Mike I was not going to post anymore about this until There are some facts from the family or Courts.
But since you ask I did check just now and they are not on the PADI website as of this time.
I spoke with customer service first and then was transferd to the Quality Control Management Department.They told me that Sunshine Dive and Charter was removed from the web site and There teaching status is supended because of a Quality Issue.I think I spoke with Maria first but thats the only name I remember.
Things do move slow in Mexico and sooner or later the Police will investagate Sunshine. Conquest Divers has no compressor and did fill those tanks with Sunshine. Of course Sunshine will not admit to anything there not stupid.
So as of this time I am bowing out of this thread because I dont want to be blamed of blamestorming.
I don't see how this is anything new, except he is stating he is taking legal action, which if you didn't see that coming you didn't read any of the previous articles. If indeed they did shutdown the shop that filled the tanks, it wasn't Sunshine Dive and Charter.



JohnZDiver, when I look right now on PADI's website I see Sunshine listed as a 5 star dive shop, complete with contact and website information, please go look it up now. Who exactly did you speak with in customer service because I would certainly like to give them a call and ask them the same question, and if it is true why they are still listed as a 5 star PADI shop?

Don, while I guess it is possible since burning oil in the oil based lubricants could cause CO, I think this is highly unlikely. Have there actually been any documented cases of this actually happening with an electic compressor?
 
hello, we have new info for this, as we mentioned before, we are 2 professionals here in cabo, just trying to get some answers. we know that there is written invoice proof that Sunshine Dive did NOT fill the tanks, there is back dated emails, and invoices as they fill for other shops in the district. nor have they filled the Conquest tanks with in the previous 4 months. The has been no contact with police or authorities between the Sunshine Dive shop, the lawyer or management. but we do know the Conquest instructor, Jorge, has gone to ground and can't be located. PADI did remove Sunshine from status, and then put them back on, then again took them off, but we have also spoke to PADI and the apparent glitch has been rectified and they will be put back in status later today or tomorrow. (we do know that this was unrelated to the incident in question.) We have seen that the family is starting a legal process, not sure how this will play out, Conquest is not a shop, its a webpage, with a instructor that has his own equipment, and when he has finds clients, he rents a boat, and goes from there. Plus the official report states that it was a drowning. also with proof from Sunshine, it will be interesting to see how it goes.
 
How can you prove that the tanks were not filled because an invoice doesn't exist? I'm not saying they were filled there but without having an invoice that they were filled somewhere else no one can be 100% sure that they were not, right? Think about it. They arent guilty they just aren't ruled out until a positive source can be identified. I'm sure all compressors in a 50 mile radius have been serviced and filters changed.

You can tell me I'm wrong by saying you have an invoice from another place that confirms.
 
OK just one more post. Well it is obvious to me that you are Sunshine Dive or how else did you get all this insider information from PADI, E mails,Past Invoices,that Conquest did not fill there lately, Police contact and so on. Just admit it. And of course she drowned after she passed out.
hello, we have new info for this, as we mentioned before, we are 2 professionals here in cabo, just trying to get some answers. we know that there is written invoice proof that Sunshine Dive did NOT fill the tanks, there is back dated emails, and invoices as they fill for other shops in the district. nor have they filled the Conquest tanks with in the previous 4 months. The has been no contact with police or authorities between the Sunshine Dive shop, the lawyer or management. but we do know the Conquest instructor, Jorge, has gone to ground and can't be located. PADI did remove Sunshine from status, and then put them back on, then again took them off, but we have also spoke to PADI and the apparent glitch has been rectified and they will be put back in status later today or tomorrow. (we do know that this was unrelated to the incident in question.) We have seen that the family is starting a legal process, not sure how this will play out, Conquest is not a shop, its a webpage, with a instructor that has his own equipment, and when he has finds clients, he rents a boat, and goes from there. Plus the official report states that it was a drowning. also with proof from Sunshine, it will be interesting to see how it goes.
 
Cabodetails, with a name like that it's clear that this screen name will only be around for as long as this conversation
 
OK just one more post. Well it is obvious to me that you are Sunshine Dive or how else did you get all this insider information from PADI, E mails,Past Invoices,that Conquest did not fill there lately, Police contact and so on. Just admit it. And of course she drowned after she passed out.

So you have proof that she past out and drowned correct?. Let me just tell you what you are saying is pretty much libel.

It sounds like you may have a personal connection to the victim, and if you do I am terribly sorry for your loss, and the family. If there was a way, I wish this forum of scuba board could be eliminated because diving was so safe it was rare to see any accidents. Unfortunately there are accidents and we try to deal and learn from them the best we can.

There are many good questions and discussions this incident has raised, or should have raised, such as always taking a CO tester with you, checking your air prior to diving, asking a shop that is filling if they have inline co monitors or testers you can use, and of course always staying with your buddy/group. It has been touched on but it is really interesting that more has not been discussed as to why the victim was at 23 meters alone. The only things I can think of is the other party either ascended without her knowing, ascended with her knowing but she either couldn't or didn't surface with them, or she continued to descend while the group stopped and ascended

However when you make ignorant comments like you are making no good comes of it.
 
I would certainly like to know where the tanks were filled, the last two times if possible - but not holding my breath. Not only will clear and documented info probably be very difficult to obtain, but in my experiences in Cozumel, Playa del Carmen, Belize, Honduras, around the Caribbean a few other places, and on some US boats - the boats generally arrive to pickup divers with tanks onboard. We might get some hearsay, but never know for sure where the tanks were filled - much less had a chance to inspect compressors. The other times I did get to tour compressors, only a very few did I see any form of quality control or CO monitoring - two I can think of.

One of those two in Belize was especially interesting in memory, altho it happened many years ago, when I was still pretty green and certainly not up on CO risks - they just had not been exposed before. A few of us were diving Nitrox on a package I arranged from a shop other than the dive Op chosen by the LDS that sponsored the trip. I was a little surprised that my LDS allowed me to arrange that, but they were nice since the chose Op did not supply Nitrox. Most of the group dove air supplied by the dive Op.

Ok, this is going to get long here, and somewhat off target - but it's related. After 3 flights and finally arriving, I started tanking up on Kool-Aide but many hit the beer bar in celebrations - and I guess that some of the non-divers encouraged the latter. The next day, first day of diving - most of the group went to their rooms ill after 2 dives, skipping the third. :confused: I shrugged if off as dehydration, glad that no one got bent and the week went on - with a lot of dread at times as the dive Op turned out to be the worst I've even seen. I wrote a scathing report on return, but I only wish I had known more about things then.

NOW, I look back at that trip with my home bud who'd dived air along with this GF that trip, reviewing their horrible symptoms, as compared to the rest of the troublesome week - and we now wonder just how close the air divers came to CO death, while us Nitrox divers were fine after breathing gas from one of the two Ops I've ever seen with quality controls, testing, records open for viewing, etc. :idk: We now think back and suspect the captain went back to the fill station, threw a fit over the tanks, and got things cleaned up enough. It's been so long that I can't tell for sure which were Nitrox divers, which were air divers other than a few also including the LDS owners who also got sick - and it's certainly years too late to go back and test tanks, but as far as personal experiences go, it's not one I can forget now.

When I got my first CO tester, I loaned it to that LDS for a trip to Utila. They forgot about it until everyone got ill the first day, much like most of the group from the Belize trip - then remembered, tested tanks, drained them all, forced an overnight overhaul of the compressor shack. They were quite grateful to me on their return. By the way, this is a tiny shop in Lubbock that does not fill anywhere close to the number of tanks I used as example above to offset costs of CO monitoring, but they monitor their compressor fills on every tank even tho their per tank cost is higher, and they carry a different brand of CO tank tester now.

It has been touched on but it is really interesting that more has not been discussed as to why the victim was at 23 meters alone. The only things I can think of is the other party either ascended without her knowing, ascended with her knowing but she either couldn't or didn't surface with them, or she continued to descend while the group stopped and ascended
Want me to speculate? I'd like honest answers on that too, but the people who were there have all surely been told not to go public. My best guess is that the three divers were all hit by CO intoxication and disability, one sinking unconscious, the other two barely able to save themselves. I may not be guessing correctly or accurately, but the scenario does fit.

Someday we may get facts released from a court case, if they are not buried by agreement of silence like one Roatan case I remember well. One of my Texas dive buds who helped me test tanks in Coz, discovering several at 17 ppm, lost a neighbor to that double death - but the facts are hidden well.

If we ever do get the facts, who knows how the real story will unforld. So far tho, the story continues to support changing old ways and habits and instead - testing every tank. I am really glad that Outdoor Equipment Rentals is now renting CO analyers for those who don't want to own.
 
How can you prove that the tanks were not filled because an invoice doesn't exist?...

I don't believe I've ever gotten an invoice or receipt for a tank fill in Mexico or a lot of other places. No, I definitely wouldn't look at the absence of an invoice/receipt as any kind of proof.

It's interesting that the name of the shop that keeps getting mentioned in the media reports keeps getting commented on by certain people defending the shop, and THEN other people comment on the comments. Look at the sequence of posts and it's obvious. Perhaps if they resisted berating the person who posted the article, the shop would stop getting tossed around in discussions. It sounds like they should be dealing instead with the source of the information - the media that is publishing the information about the shop.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

Back
Top Bottom