Fellow Diver OOA Incident

[redrover]

This was a hawaii dive charter. Small group, the DM, myself, and another couple. Before we launched the wife presented her cert card to the DM, along with her printed receipts from DAN. I thought to myself, "Uh oh. Is someone expecting trouble?

I’m not seeing what showing certification and insurance indicates trouble.

One thing I notice about the DM, is that she is kinda cruising ahead by herself...so much for her being a good buddy to me.

I thought what I paid for on a boat dive was a boat to get to the dive spot. (But then my father, a commercial fisherman said; a boat is a hole in the water to pour money, I cannot afford a boat and it is nice to be able to use someone else’s.)
I think it is nice to have a DM (tour guide), someone more experienced with the site, in the water showing me where the good stuff is instead of spending all my air time looking for it. It is cool that the boat captain knows the area better than I and motors right up to the anchor buoys.
Before I pay for something I make a point of understanding what I am paying for, what is and is not included and I think it is my responsibility being an adult of sane mind and legally able to make decisions for my self to ask questions. I would expect to make specific arrangements and pay accordingly if I wanted a DM to focus solely on me. And if I was worried about losing contact with a buddy I would probably see what I could set up for extended lessons or ask my LDS for pool time until I was reasonably confidant. I would probably not pay for a boat dive that required me to be right with the DM unless I was uncomfortable or unfamiliar with the conditions or no more than 4 divers.

15 or 20 minutes into the dive, the male from the couple shows me his air gauge at it reads about 650 psi. At this point we are in about 60fsw, with no current, and the DM is cruising along about 35 feet ahead and not looking back.

Did the DM never look back the entire dive or was she not looking back at the moment you thought to look for her?

I think to myself, "Well, this guy needs to either surface and or alert the DM, and then surface". I motion for him to go catch the DM then I motion for him to just surface. He more or less shrugs and continues on after the DM. 3 minutes later he reaches her at the ascent line...

Oh, you were on your way back to the ascent line, continuing sounds reasonable if you could see it and/or knew where you were. Was he "ok?"

and she immediately shoves her octo is his mouth and up the line the three of them go without a safety stop.

I’m new and I’m just guessing that by then he was very low on air from all that 'thrashing about' and she recognized something that made her feel the recommended and not mandated safety stop was a lower priority than reaching the surface and establishing positive buoyancy. I too have seen this happen. I didn't think it was any of my business, feeling comfortable that I would be informed if it was.

I watch from the bottom of the line in abot 35 of water...the DM comes right back down and we continue to breath down our air and explore, then do a safety stop and surface.

In my experience all crew members were very capable of managing the incidents I’ve seen. In the interest of fulfilling the expectations of all divers and not penalizing the group for those that hoover the DM sees the distressed diver into the care of the onboard crew who are in the water to manage the situation from the surface. I would expect in a life and death situation the ‘get on board NOW, safely’ signal would be employed. Otherwise what I’ve seen is that the diver is accessed quickly and if needs medical attention due to say ruptured ear drum the ‘return’ signal is sounded and we all go back to the dock where the diver is escorted to what ever further attention is deemed necessary. And depending on the expected time or tanks, we’ve returned and continued the trip. If just getting the diver to the surface is sufficient I think it is nice of the DM to continue your dive experience.

Back on the boat there was no mention of him being OOA by anyone. Not sure if he breathed his tank empty or not.

In my rescue experience calm incident command indicates rational management. In my medical, emergency and rescue experience, as well as my personal feelings, someone’s problems are private. I would be embarrassed to hear someone being harangued and I certainly would prefer to be corrected calmly and privately. The problem is enough distress, why make something unpleasant worse with public airing and in medicine, the right to privacy is a legal one.
Some people would be more inclined to voice what happened or their feelings, others some clam up. Do you know nothing was discussed about the incident while you were down completing your dive?

During the surface interval on shore his wife complains of minor motion sickness and opts out of the second dive. The three of us head back out.

Why did the boat go in for a surface interval if the man was sufficiently comfortable to dive the second dive?

So, I am curious about many things:
1) What's up with DM's that seem to be solo divers with the "Just follow me" approach. In other words, what good is a DM if you can't even get their attention.

I did not read any attempt was made to get the DM's attention. I think if something unexpected happens underwater a DM is a good thing since they have more training and experience than I and if I want to get their attention I would bang on my tank. I've seen it work very well.
I have not liked having to be on a short leash with a buddy flipping out if he couldn’t see me out of the corner of his eye at all, all times. All I do is watch him at all times to match every change in speed, direction and depth barely catching out of the corner of my eye why I’m down there. I’m rec diving, nothing fancy, murky or complicated. Every time I have boat dived there were people right with the DM. When I was too, my concentration was on evading other divers thwacking me and trying to see around all those bubbles. I use air a lot slower when I can control my position with calm maneuvers and breathing. I think it is nice when I check in with the DM and they ask me “ok?” or “air?” I try to stay within visual contact of the DM thinking it makes their job easier and we all will have more fun time. It can be hard around pinnacles or arches so I make sure to stay visible if I’m waiting my turn or get back into sight before they are looking around for me. If I stop and look at something and then cannot distinguish who the DM is I figure it’s my job to catch up. If I screw up and loose sight of the group; I was taught and it has been stated in the briefing, I’m to look for one minute and then surface. I think it’s my job to have remembered where the boat is so if I think I need to ascend before the group, I let the DM know (it’s nice when they confirm the boat direction) go to the anchor buoy and ascend. I’m new so I force myself to comply to a fixed air PSI and have an alarm for back up

2) Should I have reacted differently when he showed me his guage? His wife/buddy was with him the whole way.

Precisely why I plan to be solo even with a buddy. Note, you said he looked to you and the DM, not his lifetime partner, his buddy.

4) Should he have been allowed on the second dive?

I think any adult that appeared competent to make that choice has the right to. And if the captain (I’m guessing the captain is in charge) has strong feelings against that choice he has the right to decline the opportunity.

5) Even though I was perfectly comfortable waiting on the bottom with 1400psi in my tank, should I have ascended the line as well? I am certainly guilty of wanting to get my money's worth. A poor decision?

Unless instructed to by the DM, boat signal or highly suspecting I could be of assistance; I think I’d have stayed put – as long as I was as you stated, ‘comfortable’.

In hindsight, I feel I should have been more insistent that he start his ascent. I feel bad for not have taken a more proactive approach....Your comments, criticisms are welcomed and appreciated...

Again, I am a new diver with extensive experience assisting others in distress. From what you presented here it sounds like you handled a new and alarming experience very well and at least contributed to and possibly prevented a 'poor outcome'. Considering your remaining air time after what must have been a fair amount of anxiety I think it indicates you remained calm and provided the best support you could.
As far as insistence, my feeling is that is a ‘judgment call’. From what I hear from some far more experienced divers than myself; ‘about 650’ psi can be a boatload of air left. I wasn’t there, only you know what you observed to add to what his SPG indicated. What leans me to think yes; is that showing you his guage might indicate uncertainty. When in doubt, I most often encourage other people the safer option. A lot would depend on if you knew where you were.
How kind of you to present this scenario providing me the opportunity to review an action plan should something similar happen to me.

 

[Diver0001]

So, I am curious about many things:


2) Should I have reacted differently when he showed me his guage? In essence, I gave him two options and let him make the call. I did keep a close eye on him...and close proximity. His wife/buddy was with him the whole way.

If he was looking for you to tell him what to do then you shouldn't give him choices you should give him directions. Next time motion for them to buddy up and surface.

3) Should the DM have lectured him and his buddy? Should she have lectured me? Should we have lectured her?

I would have discussed it discretely with them. Maybe the DM did so but you didn't see it happening.

4) Should he have been allowed on the second dive?

Was there a reason not to?

5) Even though I was perfectly comfortable waiting on the bottom with 1400psi in my tank, should I have ascended the line as well? I am certainly guilty of wanting to get my money's worth. A poor decision?

If you were his buddy you should have stayed with him at least until he surfaced.

R..

 

[paulwall]

Originally Posted by humanFish
2) Should I have reacted differently when he showed me his guage? In essence, I gave him two options and let him make the call. I did keep a close eye on him...and close proximity. His wife/buddy was with him the whole way.

The three of you should have surfaced, and let the DM figure out where you went :11:
{edit}

A similar situation happened to me just recently. A father/daughter and I were teamed with a divemaster/guide in Turks.

We dropped down to 65 ft, and the divemaster took off over the ledge. The three of us were together about 20ft behind, when the daughter grabs the father, and shows her SPG. I look, too, and see she has 500psi (apparently, her tank wasn't switched). I started banging on my tank to attract the DM, who returned immediately when I pointed to the daughter and did the LOA signal. I then pointed to myself, a passing group and gave the Buddy up signal, got the OK from my DM and continued the dive.

The three returned to the boat, swapped her tank, and did a modified dive, due to the aborted first attempt.

Obviously, the DM didn't expect this at the beginning of the dive, and surely the girl should have checked her air before hitting the water. But, he was attentive, and quickly came back to assess the situation.

{/edit}

I don't believe that the DM should be more than "There to assist your enjoyment of the dive", but sheesh, check on your charges every once in awhile. If you agree to turn around at 1500, or 1250, or 1000, how will you know when one of your group hits the threshhold?

I'm no DM, but I make a point to communicate with the other divers in my group when in a 3 or 4 person buddy team. We are all buddies to each other.

 

[jerryn]

Here is what I would have done. Doesn't make it right or better, just my reaction.

When he showed me the spg I would have given him an okay sign. Then I would have called her over and checked hers and given her an okay sign. Then showed mine so they knew we had lots of air to get to the surface.

Motion to the two of them to begin a slow ascent. At 30 feet, I would then check the spg's again and possibly swim some more or continue the ascent. Then Motion to them to stop for the safety stop, and finished the ascent. Once on the surface deploy a smb if the boat is not close and the dm was still swimming along in blissful nirvana, and debrief.

I don't know how far the DM was from you nor if you knew where the anchor line was..they would enter into it...but for me, bringing them to the surface would have kept their stress level down.

Jerry