First dive of AOW class... Yukon 10/1/05, NOT fun.

[Canadian Craigster]

Wow. Talk about a bad experience !! Very pleased to hear all turned out OK, could have been much worse.

From the story you tell, there are several PADI standards violations (but there are always 2 sides to every story). I'm a PADI Instructor and I'm telling you to contact their "Quality Assurance" people and file a formal report.

Here's the 1-800 number for PADI America 1-800-729-7234. Either use the menu tree or hit "0" and ask for the Quality Assurance Department. I'm sure they'd love to hear your story.

Let us know how things go.

Dive safe,

Craigster

 

[*Floater*]

So now we've got anxiety factors like: I can't see well, bad depth perception, and it's cold as hell.

I would suggest your buy a thicker and/or better fitting wetsuit.

When I did my OW test I used a rental wetsuit which was a little loose. There were a lot other students, and I was the last one to do the test, so I had to wait on the surface while others went down to do it one by one. A 3mm would have been enough for the water temp, except that it was loose and I had to just float there for half an hour waiting for my turn so by the time my turn came up I was freezing my *** off and it definately hindered my ability to think straight and perform at the bottom.

 

[Tygh]

What dive shop did you take your AOW thru?? I would express my concerns to them as well.

 

[Skytzo_Marc]

I have my own wetsuit that fit fine. Its a henderson goldcore 7/5 mm. That was warm enough, I didn't shiver, but you definately notice the temperature change. I had a hood, boots, and gloves as well. The only part of the wetsuit that was too thin was my gloves which were more like exposure gloves.

 

[vimaldude]

I just completed my AOW certification last month in Monterrey.
One thing that jumped out at me was: how come your instructor did the wreck dive at 100' before doing deep dive as part of AOW? That itself should have warned you. I always ask my instructor about the dive conditions, depth, currents etc. before I decide to go in the water.

I am glad you came out ok. It had disaster written all over it..

 

[Scuba_Steve]

Wow. 4uckign wow.

First of all, thank God you're alive.

This Bull$hit's got to stop. You pay your money to let some Instructor and Shop play russian roulette with your life. Beautiful.

Give me your name and addy via PM and I will personally send you the required paper work to file a report with PADI, my dime.

I think the only way this crap is going to stop is to either start the lawsuit flying at the Instructors, shops and agencies.

Either that, or huge vocal public outings of the above mentioned "defendants".

If I had a dollar for every death or near death incident I've seen or heard of, on just AOW courses alone, I'd have a fair amount of coin.

Welcome to your typical recreational AOW course my friend. I won't even bother to start the list of violations, I don't have the time right now.

You HAVE to write your letter to PADI here. They can't act on what they don't know, even though, IMO they're sitting on their hands and allowing this to happen over and over again with little action truly being taken. At least that is what I have observed to date. At least by you writing to them, the ball will be squarly where it belongs, and shame on those that drop the ball on items as critical as students lives being put at risk like this.

As agency's are the final stop-gap of poor instruction, it is clearly in their court to provide the professionals that pay dues, provide them with the means to fund their organizations and give them their jobs, to provide us, for our renumeration, a respectable agency with which to teach under, and NOT a laughing stalk organization that it is impossible to deal with, with a straight face. Decent Instructors deserve what they pay for.

That of course is a blanket statement being made to all training agencies equally.

As much as a lowly padi instructor at this end is concerned, my sincerest apologies, this is NOT how it is supposed to be. This was NOT your fault. You quite frankly do not have the wherewithall to clearly judge (even though you had the right feeling here) this type of situation. This is what your "trained professional" was supposed to be doing for you here. You're an AOW STUDENT with less than 20 dives for pete sake!

Un-freakin' believeable.

Steve -out

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Have to agree with previous post. As a DM candidate I'm amazed at the level of incompetence of some instructors that frequent some of our local spots. Perhaps it's not really incompetence but a get it done and get out the game is on this afternoon type attitude. First the deep dive on aow is usually the first dive but is as others have said simply to show you deep. with a simple test to check reflexes, perception, and see how easily you get narced and to what degree. we use a combination lock timed at surface and at depth plus comparing guages and maybe a little swim. The wreck should never have been combined with this. Second, gear, ideally you should have had your own but even if not it should have fit properly and been in good condition. Here is where it was your responsibility to say wait this does not fit, I'm not comfortable with this reg, and it also was your responsibility to find out what the conditions were and make them aware you had no cold water experience, no experience with a thick wetsuit (weighting), and were not used to low vis conditions. Me I'd kill for 20 ft vis. Usually dive in 6-10 or less. It was at this point they should have suggested another refresher or discover local diving in a less strenuous situation. Such as a dive to 30 or 40 ft in the proper suit with proper weighting. They then could have had the chance to evaluate whether or not you were comfortable in the water in which you would be diving. The fact that you are still alive shows that someone did something right. This situation sounds like there were serious errors in judgement all around except on the part of GF and BF. The shop erred in not having proper and adequate gear. (many regs breath hard when looking up and in a stressed near panic state it's even harder). The instructor erred by not going over the deep review and combining the two dives. He also erred by not verifying everyone's level of (in)experience. Also why were the reviews not done in a classroom setting prior to going out. If we don't know the divers they are set down in a class room setting prior to getting in the water. Your responsibility was to have proper good fitting gear, either your own or rental. If this was not the case you should have called the dive. It was also your responsibility to be clear about how much and what type of experience you had. Personally, you would not have gone on aow with us untill you had dove a couple times in less adverse yet similar(same temp and vis, less depth) conditions. The instructor should have gotten a bright red flag when you did not know your approximate weighting. He should have immediately known that the conditions were unfamiliar to you, and that this was not a good dive for you to be figuring out your weighting. In the future, yes you should report this, you also need to get your own stuff or find an lds with rental gear you are comfortable with. You also need to get in the water more with experienced people on a regular basis in as many different conditions as possible for your level of skill. Also forget about the computer for now. You don't need it to dive. Use the tables, plan your dive then dive the plan. All you need is spg, compass, depth guage and a timer or good dive watch. Also don't be afraid to find out exactly what the conditions are and if you're in doubt, don't! Any diver may call a dive at any time for any reason and need not give it! And get a signaling device! Either tank banger, rattle, hammerhead or whatever. knocking on your tank with your fist or fingers is an exercise in futility. And if you have a light on you use it if you need to. As far as Bf being drug to the surface by the other guy I'd have punched him or grabbed the line or something to check the ascent. If he wants to bust a lung that's his business he's not going to hurt me. But then that's rescue diver training and no one was at that level. Also given the level of inexperience and the number of unknowns I wonder why there was no assistant. I realize the instructor was allowed to conduct this on his own but I'd have wanted a DM or other diver I knew and trusted along as insurance against this type of thing.

 

[Mark Vlahos]

First let me begin by clearly stating that I am not an instructor.

You certainly had a bad experience, and there is plenty of blame to go around. You have already owned up to your own mistakes, and you have clearly learned many valuable lessons from this experience. The instructor appears to also have made some poor choices. The instructor was however looking at you and the other students as certified divers who were seeking additional instruction, and not unskilled divers. This is an important distinction, but does not remove the instructor from blame.

I think that the biggest mistake you made was an honest one. You failed to fully appreciate the ramifications of diving in the cool Pacific. The visibility and water temperature here can really change your perception of what diving is. It slows your thought processes, and the thicker thermal protection makes motor skills far more challenging. The rental gear is a factor, and you have been pretty clear about how it affected you when you were in the water, but you did have time on the surface to make yourself aware of how it worked.

Don't be afraid of diving here in Southern California or anywhere else for that matter, but do make little steps, not big leaps. One of the more controlled environments in Southern California is the underwater park in Avalon on Catalina Island. The water temperature is the same as the temperatures elsewhere in the area, but the visibility is usually better, and the shore entry is about as simple as it gets. Walk down the steps and wade in to the park. There are a few rocks at the bottom of the steps but they can be easily negociated.

After your experience you have posted above I would encourage you to take an easy dive, possibly even an instructor guided dive at the underwater park. This will serve to help you to regain some confidence and aquaint you with the diving conditions in Southern California. The first time you remove your mask in cold water you are in for a shock so practice this skill in a controlled environment like the park.

You do not need to buy your own gear, but you do need to be familiar with your rental gear. You also need to be willing to refuse rental gear that you are not comfortable with. This is part of the philosophy of being willing to end the dive at any time. In the case of refusing rental gear, you would end the dive long before you even get near the water.

You appear to be well on the way to learning from this bad experience and not being overwhelmed by it, so my compliments to you. Learn from this, make a vow to never make these mistakes again, think all the way through the problems. Remember, if you are lower on air than you want to be and you feel that the dive is over but your buddy does not understand, you need to make them understand. They may be narced, grab them and get close, don't let them ignore you.

Best wishes for safe diving in the future,

Mark Vlahos

 

[Skytzo_Marc]

Yah, I definatley agree that I completely dropped the ball in terms of what I should have done which is why I didn't storm into the dive shop and start screaming. But given the fact that they still haven't called me back, I'm starting to get annoyed.

About BF grabbing the line... here's the thing, we weren't even near the line anymore so there is no way BF could have grabbed it.

 

[Skytzo_Marc]

Yah, my problem (and this has happened in other areas not just diving) is that I didn't trust my instincts and first impressions.

I should have been like: "This is the last of your rental gear, it doesn't look that great, I don't want it."

I'm damn lucky to be alive so that I don't have to repeat these mistakes.

I think I will try Catalina island, or possibly La Jolla shores... but I'm going to see if I can find an experienced dive master or instructor who can help me get used to the environment on a 30 ft dive or something.

You're right, it IS a whole different ball game from Florida/Bermuda and I should have recognized this right away.

Right now, I'm feeling that I shouldn't go back to that dive shop. So I'm not going to.