OP
Texasguy
Contributor
And if I am not? What then? Please use capital letters to describe how great my setup is. Thanks.
Please use words from here: http://thesaurus.com/browse/incredible
First stage, face up or down? Also, SPG sticking up or under the arm?
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And if I am not? What then? Please use capital letters to describe how great my setup is. Thanks.
Please use words from here: http://thesaurus.com/browse/incredible
victorzamora
Contributor
First of all, I typed a single word in caps. That's typically viewed as italics or emphasis, not yelling. My computer was being grumpy about italics, so I replaced it. Secondly, why send me to a thesaurus? "Atrocious" is plenty good of a word. The link you sent me to had synonyms like "absurd," "preposterous," and "ridiculous." I don't think atrocious is that far off.
Secondly, there's a lot wrong with a bad SM setup.If your SM setup is that bad you shouldn't be in caves that low. Or caves at all, really. Or that close to any hard surface. Deciding to switch your first stage around because your setup is too poor to prevent damage otherwise is a bandaid for a bad, systemic issue. It's an equipment fix for a skills problem. You should work on your skills. Diving your first stage up isn't an issue. Deciding to do so because your technique is poor IS an issue.
If you're not bumping your first stage, then bumping your first stage shouldn't be of any concern to you.....and it shouldn't be a huge point in deciding which setup to go with.
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OP
Texasguy
Contributor
You are just f*cking with me, right?
victorzamora
Contributor
Although I am getting confused with the content of some of the later exchanges, let me try to offer thoughts on the original 2 questions. I will refrain from using CAPITAL LETTERS, boldface print, or underlining, so as to not create a mis-impression. 
I honestly have never had any problem with either first stage configuration or SPG routing in terms of damage to either, on shore through cylinders being dropped, or laid on the ground in some particular position.
Either way is fine, there is no universal standard, and the beauty of sidemount diving is that you can tweak your rig many different ways, to suit you (boy, it would be useful to use boldface print and underlining, maybe even capital letters, to emphasize 'you'), and that is perfectly acceptable. I dive my cylinders both ways, and I have students practice configuring their cylinders both ways, just so they can see how they like it. Having the first stage 'outboard', is perhaps less streamlined, is perhaps a bit of an entanglement hazard, but for open water diving, it works fine. In a restricted space environment, I prefer facing the first stage (and valve apertures) 'inboard'. There is somewhat less of an opportunity to bang the first stage into something (wall, bottom, etc.) although I don't find that to be a problem.
You can orient you SPG either up or down. In the 'up' position, even on a 6" HP hose (which I use on both cylinders, it is perhaps a greater entanglement hazard. But, for OW diving, it is really convenient, and all you have to do is look down to see the pressures. In the 'down' position, with a 6"hose, and the first stages facing 'outboard' (looking down as you describe it), it is very easy to slide my hand up the cylinder wall, and bend the SPG hose upward so I can read it. If the first stages are facing 'inboard', I can still reach over with my hand, find the hose and bend it upward to read. I also have my students practice diving with the SPGs sticking up, and with them lying flat along the cylinder wall, just so they can see the difference.
I honestly have never had any problem with either first stage configuration or SPG routing in terms of damage to either, on shore through cylinders being dropped, or laid on the ground in some particular position.
djcheburashka
Contributor
I think this is a topic where a consensus is yet to develop.
I do my main tanks razor-style, with the first stages aimed in at my body and the spgs pointed down along the tanks.
I tried to do the stages razor-style, with the 1st stages up and spgs pointed down like in the Steve Martin pic, but I could never get that to work right when rigging up in the chest area. So I've switched to 1st stage-down for the stages. I turn the spgs so they face me and bungee them to the valve in that position, similar to a DIR stage rigging.
I'm not a fan of 1st-stage down. I think it's inevitable that some first stage will bump into something in an unfortunate way. I view my current setup as an interim stop-gap.
I do my main tanks razor-style, with the first stages aimed in at my body and the spgs pointed down along the tanks.
I tried to do the stages razor-style, with the 1st stages up and spgs pointed down like in the Steve Martin pic, but I could never get that to work right when rigging up in the chest area. So I've switched to 1st stage-down for the stages. I turn the spgs so they face me and bungee them to the valve in that position, similar to a DIR stage rigging.
I'm not a fan of 1st-stage down. I think it's inevitable that some first stage will bump into something in an unfortunate way. I view my current setup as an interim stop-gap.
I have the first stage between the tank and myself. The tank valve opening knob points down. This is possible as I have classical loop bungees and one lefthand valve and one righthand valve. If both would be same (two similar valves, eg two rented single tanks) then one first stage would be on the inside and one on the outside.
Once I used a setup where the knob pointed to the side (and I hated it, but I wasnt using ring bungee...) and in that case I kept the first stage on top of the tank. If it is below it is more exposed while you are crawling on stones. In my setup however, the rubber knobs are exposed and that hasn't been a major problem either. So... I dont think the 1st stage placement is that critical.
Just find a setup that is comfortable to use with your harness and hose setup. Change the setup as needed. There is plenty of advice in the splendid posts above.
The spg could also have a longer hose that makes an U-turn along the cylinder. Then you will have the spg bound with snoopy loops (car owning neighbors beware) to the outside of the cylinder. A bit exposed maybe but convenient: good distance from eyes, pull forward/push back, no dangling parts...
Once I used a setup where the knob pointed to the side (and I hated it, but I wasnt using ring bungee...) and in that case I kept the first stage on top of the tank. If it is below it is more exposed while you are crawling on stones. In my setup however, the rubber knobs are exposed and that hasn't been a major problem either. So... I dont think the 1st stage placement is that critical.
Just find a setup that is comfortable to use with your harness and hose setup. Change the setup as needed. There is plenty of advice in the splendid posts above.
The spg could also have a longer hose that makes an U-turn along the cylinder. Then you will have the spg bound with snoopy loops (car owning neighbors beware) to the outside of the cylinder. A bit exposed maybe but convenient: good distance from eyes, pull forward/push back, no dangling parts...
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scuba127
Contributor
I'm wondering what you mean by "classical loop bungees?" Would "Old School" loop bungees mean the same thing?
OP
Texasguy
Contributor
Yes. It would.
rhuntley
Contributor
As an open water SM diver, I have my first stage "outboard", but my SPGs running down the tanks, as I found having them up stuck them in my face. I'm definitely going to try first stages "Inboard" for the heck of it though.
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