Full Face Mask for Recreational Diving?

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JeffMandell

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I've searched the Scubaboard archives, but I can't find a discussion about whether it makes sense to use a full face mask for recreational scuba diving. I don't think I've ever seen one on a dive boat. It seems to me that a FFM has got some great possibilities, including 2way radio talk with your buddy, but no one seems to be doing it. Is it the expense? If not, then what?
 
Jeff,

There are some that are diving FFM's recreationally. There are three primary reasons to dive a FFM.

1. Environmental: Cold, contaminated and so forth.
2. Physiological: Exposure to high PPO2, risks of convulsions, other things that you shouldn't be diving with or even someone with TMJ or dentures and the like.
3. Communications: To provide you with an appropriate air space (oral/nasal pocket) in which you can talk effectively into.

And then there is the neat and jeewhizzie factor. Probably not the best reason.

Probably one of the best reasons for recreational diving is the use of communications. There is some cost, but, once you've used it you will see the benefits of the equipment. I use mine to put conversation directly to video. It only takes once that your buddy shouts to you "hey, there's a Manta Ray over here" and you get it on tape, that you see the beauty of the equipment. Time to take underwater video out of the dark ages of the silent movies...

The cost... Figure around a $1,000.00 for an AGA mask with a Buddy Phone, each. (you need two, helps to have someone to talk to) That's for a basic comms setup.
 
Let me start by saying I have dove FFMs (AGA mask) for about 8 years both professionally as a Fire Department Rescue Diver and also recreationally. I own an AGA mask, and have used it for wreck diving in NY, and some fresh water diving in quarries around the NE. I have used the FFM for deep dives that included switching gases for deco and also for playing around with a single tank in shallow water while working on boats in the marina. I also dive with standard regulators and a mask, which is my prefered choice for penetration wreck diving. So I will say confidantly I have an idea on this subject, and can speak from experience and not just what I have read elsewhere on these boards.

$$$$ -
A FFM is an expensive item that should be at the bottom of your list of equipment to buy. A FFM will run you anywhere from $400 up to $1000 depending on what brand and options you want. And that is with out coms. Add $200 to $500 for a com set, per mask.
You will still need to buy a first stage regulator and a standard octopus as I haven't seen any FFMs that come with a first stage (except LDS packages), plus a standard face mask for backup. Oh and most FFMs require a high performance-high flow 1st stage regulator. so your sherwood piston probably won't cut it...
If your diving in cold water you'll need a special hood that will seal with a FFM because you can't put your hood over the maskstraps, so it must have a double sided face seal. (a latex hood or Whites makes a double sided neoprene just for FFMs). If you try to put the FFM on, then your hood over it, you'll never be able to pull the mask off in an emergency...

More complex to use... safety-
If you have a problem with a standard regulator while under water, you just let it go and stick you octopus in your mouth, blow out to clear and your back in action.
With a FFM it gets a little more complicated.
If your mask has a problem you need to take the mask off by pulling it up off you face, then you put your octopus in your mouth, clear and start breathing with out a facemask while you get your standard facemask ready(which you always need to carry with you, either around your neck facing-backwards or in a pocket) You get your mask in place and clear that too, now your back in action with a big clunky FFM swinging around on the end of a hose.
If your standard facemask leaks, no problem, you wiggle it back and forth to seat it a little better on your face, lean back your head and blow out through your nose and its fixed. A FFM is the opposit. You need to fix the seal, then lean foward to blow out the water through the exaust valve. One more thing to remember.
A complete flood (ie knocked loose) is much more complicated in a FFM. A complete flood takes away your breathing and your sight, whereas a regular mask will only take one or the other. So if your reg is knocked out of your mouth you either grab your reg (or octo if you cant find the primary), stick it back in your mouth, clear and breathe. If your standard facemask gets knocked loose and floods, you can still breathe, so you set it and clear it. But with a FFM you will loose both sight and breathing at the same time, and if your in cold water, will hit your face like a blast of ice water. This can cause all kinds of problems if you didn't aclimate your face to the temp before you put your FFM on. The cold shock can cause a full blown lyrngospasm or just a quick gasp and a mouthfull of water, either way your going to be in trouble, real fast and will need to have your wits about you if you want to survive this.:wacko:
So to re-don your FFM you pull it off and go to your octopus for the moment (not your backup fackmask, just the octo). You loosen all the straps, take one last big breath of air from your octo and spit it out while you press the FFM to your face, holding it tight in a face down position you press the purge botton on the reg to clear the FFM. once the water is out of the mask, you can breathe while you pull the straps over your head and tighten them. But if you don't hold the FFM tight untill you get the straps tight, the FFM will flood again and you'll need to purge it again. Depending on the FFM and how good a seal your holding, it can take anywhere from 10 to 30 seconds to fully clear a FFM, all the while your holding your breath. This is probably the most difficult task to master in a FFM and gives people the most trouble when learning how to use a FFM. Some people (who shouldn't be using FFMs) who completely flood a FFM will not even try to re-don the FFM while under water, but just go their octo and facemask to continue or surface. But if you're just at the begining of your dive and a buddy kicks your mask loose 110' under water, what are you gonna do??!? go back up to the surface and rest your mask and go down again?!?!?
This is also a skill that requires BOTH hands to do, so if you've got that $400 metal detector or the $180 super hid light in your hand you'd beter clip it off quick or just drop it if you're on the bottom.

field of vision-
A FFM drasticly reduces your field of view downward, so if you need to see your BC inflator or your octo to use it, a FFM is not for you. With a FFM you learn to use standard locations and feel of your accessories to find them. I know my lift bag is always in the same place, my reel is always in the same place, I can find my octo with out looking, my BC inflator is always at my fingertips when I need it, etc, etc. I am amazed how many divers I see actually looking for their equipment when they need it.

A full fack mask is an advanced piece of equipment that requires training by someone very familiar with their operation. It's not something you can learn how to use in one or two "pool" sessions. A good instructor will show how and why you need to aclimate your face to the temp under water and why you need to be proficent in all FFM skills to the point that it becomes second nature. Like blowing out through your nose to clear your facemask is second nature, we don't think about it we just do it. FFM skills need to be this ingrained in your head so when the s^&t hits the fan, you don't need to think how do you clear your FFM.

A FFM is something that can be very usefull for various reasons (coms, diving in contaminated water) but in the hands of an untrained diver it can be confusing and deadly.

The Rescue classes I've taken all start with a skills check and the hardest one for everybody is the FFM to octo and then go back to the FFM, all while underwater. This is something I practice every time I use the FFM. If I'm at dutch springs, I'll sit on one of the under water platforms and do this five times or till I'm completly comfortable with it, If I do a wreck dive in the atlantic, I'll switch to my octopus after my deco is complete but before I go up the last 15 feet. Then I'll switch back and surface.

Oh and one more thing, you can't vomit in a FFM... this seems kind of a gross statement, but I was sick one day out in the atlantic 80 feet under water (a stomach virus I later found out). Well I felt it coming up and ripped off the FFM and shoved my octopus (poseidon cyklon) in my mouth as I barfed. I coughed and barfed again, each time rinsing, clearing the reg and getting a breath in between coughing fits and gagging. But when finished I felt better so I put the FFM back on and finished my dive.

For the average rec diver I think the money can be better spent on other gear. And if you're still not sure, try one in a pool before you buy it, and get a proper class on it from an instructor who uses one on a frequent basis.
 
HOLY COW!! :eek:

I guess I got my answer...
I'll just quietly leave now with my mask and reg and thank you for the all too vivid descriptions of how to find find real trouble with one of these.
Guess that takes the FFM off my Christmas wish list...
 
I don't mean to sound like the grim reaper of FFMs but I just wanted to stress how important it is to be PROPERLY trained. I always ask what kind of training they have when I see a diver with a FFM. I am always amazed at how many divers respond that they "played with it in the pool at the shop" and here thay are jumping into 100' of water with not a clue as to how to properly clear the FFM. This is another classic situation of a dive shop just selling a diver anything cause money talks and BS walks. I have met a few divers who did go through the time and effort to find a good FFM instructor to learn from... but only after they had a problem with the FFM and got scared...

Don't get me wrong, I do think that FFMs are a great tool for any diver, WITH the right training and under the right circumstances. but unfortunatly, I see way too many people buying them and thinking its just a case of slap it on and jump in the water.

So Jeff, I will restate my feelings on the subject, go find a place that will let you use one in a controlled enviorment and find a GOOD instructor who is intimatly familliar with FFMs and try it out. then decide if you want to call santa and change your wish list.:reaper:
 
There is a lower tech alternative to modern FFM's. Cressi Sub designed a FFM about 30 yrs ago that is still in production in silicone form and sold through various sources.

You can use the mask with the mouth piece in place as it just snug fits though the hole in the mask provided for it. You can then either keep the mouthpiece in your mouth or not per your preference or as the situation dictates. Keeping it in your mouth gives the advantage of no CO2 buildup in the mask without needed to use a separate oral/nasal cavity in the mask. You can also pull the primary reg out of the mask fairly readily and replace it with an octopus assuming the octo mouth piece has fairly small bite tabs.

Clearing is just a matter of exhaling through your nose or removing the mouthpiece from your mouth (but still in place in the mask) and pressing the purge button. Either way the water will vent out the bottom of the mask and a small tab is provided to allow you to pull down on the lower portion of the mask to assist in this process if needed.

It is not compatable with comunications equipment and the field of view does not compare with an AGA or SP full face. But if all you are looking for is cold water protection and simplicity of use, it's hard to beat. They are also only about $75 retail.

On a more advanced FFM capable of holding an additional second stage, you can also use a gas switching block to prevent having to remove the mask to switch regs. But these have their own set of gas management and training issues and further increase the complexity of your rig.
 
I use one of the aforementioned Cressi Sub style masks (purchased from an online auction seller) and find it an absolute dream to use. Mind you, it's not super cold here in West Oz (methinks the coldest it gets is around 15°C/60°F) and I'm not using it under ice. I have seen on the web, a UK tv show that a lady was challenged to dive under the ice and she used one also.
 
I work with a DM who owns a Neptune II. I've never seen him dive it though.
 
But generally I only use them surface supplied.
 
Years ago I used an AGA Divator full face mask in the pool for instruction.

This was a large class of university students, I had several assistant instructors who would demo the skills and ride herd on the students. I'd talk and explain as they demo'd. There is no doubt it helped speed up the skills progression "No, no! Look UP when you clear your mask", but I was dependent on the assistants.

Never used it in open water, that was all a KMB or Rathat. I did notice that my SAC was quite a bit higher than regular OC scuba.

It has its place as a tool, for when you need to talk. nyresq has done a good job explaining the consequences & problems.

All the best, James
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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