G10 Housings

[MXGratefulDiver]

I have a G10 and wondered if anyone else has a problem with movies that are downloaded to CD-R stopping when playing back? Playing them back from my computer is no problem.

I suspect that's a media issue, rather than a camera issue. I have the same problem with some of the photo shows I put together. Try a different brand CD-R.

Back to the OP ... I purchased a G10 with Fisheye FIX housing back in February, along with the wide-angle port. Overall I think it was well worth the investment ... the housing's so compact it almost looks like they just poured alunimum over the camera to make it. And it's sturdy as a battleship. But I have two minor issues ...

First ... I dive the camera with dual strobes, and was experiencing intermittent strobe failures. After lots of frustration and a couple of replacement strobes, I finally isolated the problem to the housing. I use optical cables that plug into a little attachment that goes over the flash port. Fisheye has offset that attachment (probably to make it easier to replace lens ports) ... and the hole where the left cable plugs into is so much offset that it wasn't getting adequate light from the flash to make the strobe fire under certain conditions (hence the intermittency of the problem). I built my own attachment that put the optical cables directly over the flash and haven't had a problem with it since.

The second issue is that the buttons are small and fairly difficult to manipulate with drygloves on. I've gotten in the habit of setting up the camera the way I like it before I descend, so I don't have to mess with them once the dive is underway. Mostly the only thing I want to mess with anyway is the F-stop, and so I leave the camera set up such that I only have to move the thumbwheel to change F-stop. If I need to, I can still press buttons ... but I have to do so carefully or I'll end up making a change I didn't intend.

Someone mentioned the wide-angle port is inadequate. I haven't found that to be the case ... but I suppose it depends on what you want to do with it. Here's a couple examples of pics I took with mine ...

First ... from Bonaire on the Hilma Hooker ...

Second, here at home. This was in very murky water, and the WA port allowed me to get pretty close to the subject ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Splash-X]

Although I do not own a G10 I do own a Cannon A650IS with the Cannon underwater case. I also own a Sea & Sea DX1G.

I have to say that the design to the Cannon cases makes it easy to see exactly what you're doing. I hate my Sea & Sea case (and camera) and I'm looking to sell it to upgrade to a G9 or a G10.

For the a650 I hooked up my single strobe similar to this:

http://www.seaandsea.ru/equipment/YS25DX_files/CanonA10_YS25DX_C.jpg


That image came from this thread:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/strobes-lighting/228242-what-do-i-use-setup-a650-strobe.html




I personally think the Cannon housing is very reliable. I've had it over a year and a half now and its solid.

 

[SFLDiver3445]

Thanks for the replies. I'm starting to lean toward the Patima, maybe with a S&S strobe. I have a few questions about the Patima housing, like are all of the dials and controls usable with the housing? It seems like it might be leaving out a few of the functions. Also, minus the handles and arms, what all do I need to add to get the strobe attached and working right? I'll probably just start a new thread for those questions to try and draw in the Patima users. Thanks again.
-Ryan

Ryan, I do not have a G10, but I do have a G9 with the Patima Housing, which in most ways is similar, with the exception of the G10's 28mm lens, the Patima G10 Housing's body color and the Patima G10's port designs on housing, so I'm happy to give you some feedback on the G9 housing. BTW, I happened to be in Reef Photo yesterday and had the Patima G10 Housing in my hand.

First, let tell you, I love my Patima Housing! The housing has a lot of positives, so let me tell you about those first. The housing is extremely well built and designed. It's solid aluminum and the buttons are well positioned and easy to work with one hand. It comes with both ports, one for wide angle (short) and one for macro (long). It has both optical and sync cord connection options. The housing is relatively small and easy to maneuver. I use it with twin Inon Z-240's, an Inon UWL-100 somed wide angle lens and two Inon UCL-165M67 close-up lenses. The housing is easy to open/close, and the latches are very secure and do not bother me throughout the dive. The housing is rated to a depth of 120 meters, which is rare for housings. The rear cover has a large rear glass area, which allows you to see the entire display, and some even some of the buttons. The orings on the back cover and on the ports are easy to remove/replace, so maintenance is fairly simple. The button allows you to work all the buttons, including the wheel, which comes in extremely handy, because it's the main way to adjust the aperature, shutter speed, etc., let's just say, I use it often and on every dive.

Now for some of the negatives: The housing is heavy, both out of the water and in the water. I use 6 Jumbo Stix floats on the arms, and yesterday, I purchased a couple of more, because it's still heavy underwater with the domed lens and both strobes. If you're using one strobe and a heavy lens, I can forsee having problens compensating for the weight, because any floats you add will throw off the balance. Patima does sell a float you can attach to the housing, which hovers above the camera, but I'm not sure that will be practical in all situations. However, if properly assessorized with the floats on the arms, it will balance out nicely.

The connection for the optical strobes only fits one cable. Consequently, if you want two strobes optically connected, you will need to connect the second strobe to the first strobe as a slave, which is how I have it setup. It's not really a problem, and it works perfectly, but I would have loved to have two optical cable slots on the housing, to the slave thing.

The Patima Housing does not have any electronics inside it, so if you want to connect your strobes via the sync cord, you will need to add a TTL converter. I mention that, because some houdings do have the electroncs already included.

The long port, which is used for macro, will vignette until you zoom out a bit. This can be a bit frustrating, but nothing that can't be compensated for by just zooming out a bit. However, with the long port, you will not be able to use the initial zoom area of the camera. They have corrected this on the G10 housing and tapered the long port so you can use the entire zoom area of the camera. However, it does not appear that you can add close-up lenses to the long port on the G10, as you can on the G9, which appears to be the trade-off. However, you can add close-up 67mm lenses to the short port, but that lens restricts the zooming of the camera's lens. When shooting wide angle, it's not a problem, because you really don't need to be zooming with a good lens on the short port. As I indicated, I use the domed UWL-100 lens, and I never have to zoom, because I have approximately 130 degrees of coverage and my depth of field is right up the front of the glass or near that.

The housing is expensive at approximately $1K+, especially when you can pick up the factory G10 housing for approx. $200. But truthfully, I think my Patima G9 Housing is worth every penny and then some. So unless I ever make the decision to move up to a dslr camera, or some other spectacular housing comes out on the market, I wouldn't trade it for the world!

Just keep in mind. The G10 has a 28mm lens, as oppossed to the G9's 35mm lens, and I haven't tried the G10 with the Patima Housing in action. So I don't know how the 28mm lens will affect pictures with add-on lenses, so I would consult either someone who has used one or your local underwater photography store. I use Reef Photo (Inon Mega Float Arm S [ino.395] - $66.00 : Reef Photo & Video!, The Underwater Photo Pros), because they are friendly, very knowledeable and have an awesome inventory all the time, plus, I'm fortunate that they are located 15 minutes from my home and only 5 minutes from my office.

I realize it's frustrating trying to gather enough information to make a decision to spend a bunch of money on a system, so I hope some of this info helps you.

BTW, in case you haven't seen some of the pictures I've posted on this site, here's a few pictures that I've taken with my G9 in the Patima Housing:

Adrian

 

[NTSilver]

Housings:
Canon: Pro's: Cheap, compact, acessory adapters for macro lenses
Con's: Cheaply constructed, no wide angle option, no button for use of menu/focus wheel

Ikelite: Pro's: Economically priced, Ultra Durable, Wide angle lens "kinda of"
Con's: Bulky, limited macro lens options, did I say bulky?

Fix: Pro's: Compact, accepts both macro and wide angle lenses, durable
Con's: Pricey, wide angle option is only dry "no wet option"

Patimaro's: Rugged, accepts wide range of 67mm wet lenses, compact
Con's: most expensive g10 housing


Do you make sure to soak the housing with fresh water and then properly dry it after using? After soaking make sure to push all the buttons, to drain any water trapped between the seals. This is first time I've heard about Ikelite housings having any sort of rust issues.

If the supplier changed the coating, as you have stated, I can't imagine Ikelite not repairing / replacing with the properly treated parts.

Hopefully I selected this quote correctly. I have spoken to Ikelite. The first time they replaced all hardware for free for the coating issue. The second time it happened after one dive trip. I had an in-depth conversation with the repair folks at Ikelite. I was absolutely soaking the housing after each dive and thoroughly drying - I even have a special shami towel that I use to soak up the extra water. I did not know about pushing the buttons while the housing is in the water. No one ever mentioned that to me and I have never had any problems with buttons sticking etc. For the record, it wasn't the buttons that were rusting - it was the latches that hold the thing together - a pretty critical piece of hardware that I really don't want rusting. One of the places that is rusting is on the back panel between the housing and the latch with no room to dry. Ikelite suggested I get a can of "air" and blow out the water. At the same time that my housing was rusting, my toggle broke on my DS-125 strobe. I was beginning to wonder if I had received "lemon" equipment or things just weren't being built as well as I had heard about ikelite. The toggle turned out to be a supplier issue as well and it was replaced for free. I guess I feel like if I pay that much money for things that are supposed to be well built, I shouldn't have those issues. (and yes, now I realize that as far as the housing is concerned, I was not properly taking care of the buttons)

 

[Gilligan]

At the risk of getting hammered on this thread I'll throw out my opinion anyway as it's just one mans perspective.

Keeping in mind the Canon G10 is a point-and-shoot camera, albeit a good one, spending approx. $1000. on a Patima housing + another 500 to 1000 for one or two strobes seems out of proportion for a point-and-shoot camera. If you have almost 2k to spend on a housing and strobe(s) shouldn't you be buying a DSLR camera? There is no comparison in picture quality difference between the two.

 

[SFLDiver3445]

At the risk of getting hammered on this thread I'll throw out my opinion anyway as it's just one mans perspective.

Keeping in mind the Canon G10 is a point-and-shoot camera, albeit a good one, spending approx. $1000. on a Patima housing + another 500 to 1000 for one or two strobes seems out of proportion for a point-and-shoot camera. If you have almost 2k to spend on a housing and strobe(s) shouldn't you be buying a DSLR camera? There is no comparison in picture quality difference between the two.

Hi Gilligan,

The point you make regarding the justification for spending the $ to set up a G9/10 in a Patima Housing vs. setting up a DSLR System is a very valid one. It's a question that I've studied on a regular basis, because I would like to ultimately upgrade to a dslr system. However, each time I've sat down and crunched the numbers, as I did before committing to my G9/Patima system, I've found that setting up a comparable dslr system is Considerably more expensive, at least by my math.

I know you can find cheaper cameras and systems, but when you look at quality dslr systems, boy are they expensive!

Ikelite has some pretty reasonable prices, but I generally disregard Ikelite as an option for me, and that's because I use Inon strobes which are generally not compatable with their housings, because the electonics are different, and Ikelite's housings do not have provisions to connect strobes optically.

Recently, I've been considering buying a Nikon D300 camera, and setting it up in a housing. I know the D300 is pricey, but that's only one factor contributing
to the costs. Here's some of the things that I've found to contribute to the much higher dslr costs, and trust me, I'm pretty sure I'm low-balling the numbers:

1) Quality dslr housings are expensive. Sure, some manufacturers make them for approximately $1500 or so, but realistically, a quality dslr housing will run you somewhere between $2K - $3K+. (Assume Total = $2,000)

2) If you want to shoot true wide angle, then you will need a quality dome port to support your 10 to 14 or so milimeter lens. Most quality dome ports for that kind of lens, will run you in the range of $800 - $1200+. I know, that sounds like alot, but it just seems to be the case, each time I look into it. Oh, and don't forget to add another $500+ for the lens itself. (Assume Total = $1,300)

3) You also need a port for macro. I've always looked at 100mm macro, which will run you another $400+ or so. Oh, and don't forget to add another $500 or so for the 100mm lens. (Assume Total = $900)

4) Let's not forget to throw in the camera as well. You can buy a dslr in the $600 price range, but realistically, a nice quality dslr will run you $1K to 2K+. (Assume Total = $1,000)

Consequently, when I add up these numbers, I end up with a total for the camera, lenses and housing at about $5,200, and that doesn't include some of the other extras that always get added on, such as extra batteries, extension rings, sync cords, etc.

The truth is, the system I've been looking at, which would include a Nikon D300 with a housing that would allow me to go to 300' depth (yep, I'm a tech diver), would run me approximately 50 to 100% more than the numbers I've totaled here, because if you go with higher-end housing and add a quality viewfinder on it, the cost just skyrockets. And fortunately, I already have the strobes, arms and tray.

Now for the somewhat comparable point-n-shoot comparison...The Patima housing runs approx. $1,000. The G9/G10 can be purchased for approximately $450. A good Inon wide angle lens, with the dome addition for awesome wide angle will run you approximately $750. Two Inon close-up lenses will run you approximately $300. Grand total, should be approx. $2500.

Dual strobes, such as the Inon z-240s I use, would work for both systems, and the tray and arms are also comparable, so we'll assume they are neglible for the sake of comparison.

So when you compare a lower-end dslr camera/housing setup, to a high-end point-n-shoot camera housing setup, you are probably $3000 or so apart in cost, when you add the sync cords to connect the dslr. For most folks, an extra $3K is a fair amount of cash, especially when you can get some fairly respectable results with a quality point-n-shoot setup.

I suppose one option is to buy a used dslr system, which can save you a bunch of $, but my problem with that has always been, that most older dslr camera systems come with a terrible screen size and resolution, compared to the newer systems. If you've never shot with a viewfinder underwater, that's at least 3" in size and 230,000 pixels of more of resolution, like the G9, then you don't know what I mean. Once you use that kind of display, you'll never ever ever ever be able to go back to a lower size/resolution option, trust me.

My apologies for going off on a tangent on this thread, but this may be a question that many folks out there have considered, and until you actually sit down and put pen to paper, it's often difficult to realize how expesive a quality dslr system is, compared to a point-n-shoot sytem.

Just my $0.02.

Adrian

 

[SilentWater]

Nice shots Adrian, a real nice blenny. I think I saw that one on another thread, didn't you take it at the Blue Heron Bridge? I've talked to Richard and Ryan at ReefPhoto about the Patima and a S&S ys-110a. They have been a lot of help. I think thats what I'll end up going with. I plan on going by there in the next few days. I still wouldn't mind hearing anyones opinions about the FIX though. I prefer the look of the Patima, but "look" isn't as important to me as quality and versatility. Maybe I'll see if they have one at ReefPhoto I can look at. Thanks for the in depth breakdowns. -Ryan

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

At the risk of getting hammered on this thread I'll throw out my opinion anyway as it's just one mans perspective.

Keeping in mind the Canon G10 is a point-and-shoot camera, albeit a good one, spending approx. $1000. on a Patima housing + another 500 to 1000 for one or two strobes seems out of proportion for a point-and-shoot camera. If you have almost 2k to spend on a housing and strobe(s) shouldn't you be buying a DSLR camera? There is no comparison in picture quality difference between the two.

I won't hammer you (I love your photograhy way too much for that) ... but I will disagree.

So far I've got about $4K into my setup ... that includes the G10, Fisheye FIX housing, WAL, macro port, dual S&S YS-110a strobes, focus light, and strobe arms.

For a DSLR setup, that's about what I'd pay for a good housing.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Nemrod]

SFLdiver, your G9 and photos are fantastic IMO. Your use of the Inon lens with dome was my inspiration for adapting it to my little camera and your choice of strobes as well. I also come to the same math you do for the dSLR camera. Yes, I can easily afford one, no, I cannot justify one for casual shooting. As well there is the problem of transport, flying, in my Jeep, or on my boat or otherwise in transport a dSLR rig is huge, takes up to much room on the dive boat and in some ways intrudes on other people's space. There may come a time with the Micro 4:3 stuff etc that I change my mind but not now. If I were a pro or serious amateur like yourself however I can see your budding interest. The G10 looks like a great compact rig, good price and cost effectiveness especially if the purchaser is not into "true" wide angle stuff. Most of the time, most people cannot tell a P&S pic from a dSLR pic, especially via web display or a 4X6 size print etc. LOL, I have even posted a few "pro" shots and had people tell me they can tell they were shot with a P&S when actually they were shot with a D3 by a professional, lol, . (I should not do that cuz it is mean) Good luck to you. Your shots look great. N

 

[FrankPro1]

I did not know about pushing the buttons while the housing is in the water. No one ever mentioned that to me and I have never had any problems with buttons sticking etc. For the record, it wasn't the buttons that were rusting - it was the latches that hold the thing together - a pretty critical piece of hardware that I really don't want rusting.

I guess I feel like if I pay that much money for things that are supposed to be well built, I shouldn't have those issues. (and yes, now I realize that as far as the housing is concerned, I was not properly taking care of the buttons)

Not only should push you all the buttons when having the housing submerged in water, but also when you drying it. There is water which gets trapped and by pushing all of them, you can bleed that water.

I too have an Ikelite digital housing for my Powershot G10 and though I've had it for less then a year, it shows no signs of rusting or even tarnishing anywhere.

The can of air idea is a good one, but still you shouldn't have to go such lengths to prevent rust. Especially on an Ikelite housing which is known for its durability.

I agree with you on the final bit Spending the extra money on an Ikelite housing, with the intent of it being a durable, reliable product and then only for it to have rust issues must be disheartening. I have not heard any experience even remotely close to your own when dealing with Ikelite housings, but it still raises concerns of longevity on my own housing.

If you have almost 2k to spend on a housing and strobe(s) shouldn't you be buying a DSLR camera? There is no comparison in picture quality difference between the two.

I went through the same debate in my head and eventually settled with the G10/ Ikelite housing. Its a happy middle ground between economical and expensive. The only problem is that a SLR camera, plus lens, will run you at least double the price of the G10 and then on top of that the cheapest housings available for such systems are atleast 1200$ plus options going all the way up past 4000$ for the most expensive.

There is no "real" photographic comparison between an SLR system and a G10, but when shooting in low ISO's and proper accessory lenses it can come very very close.