General Sherman Wreck fatality - South Carolina

[Mike]

It is my understanding that CPR is more effective when given in coordination with oxygen. For a dive charter boat today to NOT have working oxygen equipment and a crew trained to use it is nothing short of gross negligence, regardless of whether it would have made a difference or not.

Maybe within US waters you could use the words 'gross negligence' with some meaning or legal ramifications, but outside of them, through out all the dozens of countries just in the Caribbean and the thousands of dive operators you could dive with, you're going to be shockingly amazed how oxygen on board won't be the norm, nor even be in the realm of being considered 'negligent' in the least. Not to beat a dead horse but you get what you pay for. And shoe string operations will always greatly outnumber the majority of dive operators out there.

 

[Hawkwood]

I guess I have been extremely lucky. In the Caribbean have been to St. Lucia; Cozumel; Little Cayman Island; Cayman Brac; Bonaire; Belize; Roatan; Turks & Caicos; Bermuda (I know it's not the "Caribbean"); Cancun; Barbados, and Playa Del Carman, and there as been a green DAN O2 kit on every boat I have been on.

Then there are the other places I've been to outside the Caribbean - 02 on those as well.

 

[Shot a man in Reno...]

Just to keep the discussion from about the O2 going way off of the rails:

The original information from the news report/interview was that:
"Sterbenz also said the medical equipment on board was faulty with dry rotted emergency oxygen masks on board. As for the tanks that attach to it, Sterbenz said the first was empty and an employee threw the other overboard."
"Poor young man kind of freaked out," said Sterbenz. "He said it's going to blow, and he threw the oxygen overboard."

DandyDon translated this into his post of:
"so the crew member tried the next one by just opening it, and when it starting expelling pure O2 - someone had the sense to tell him to throw it overboard before it'd explode."

I'm not certain why you do not want pure oxygen coming out of an oxygen bottle/cylinder. I expect that is what they are meant to contain.

nimoh speculates:
"If the valve was broken, and pure oxygen was coming out, there is an immediate explosion/fire hazard, and if the valve couldn't be closed, throwing it overboard may have been the best option."

From what I can see, we have not heard a reason why the second Oxygen cylinder was thrown overboard, we only have speculation.

If the diver was already dead, giving oxygen is like putting gas in a car with no engine, a fruitless effort. But there is no excuse for not having working O2 systems on board, which are useful in other situations.

 

[ahava]

The original information from the news report/interview was that:
"Sterbenz also said the medical equipment on board was faulty with dry rotted emergency oxygen masks on board. As for the tanks that attach to it, Sterbenz said the first was empty and an employee threw the other overboard."
"Poor young man kind of freaked out," said Sterbenz. "He said it's going to blow, and he threw the oxygen overboard."

DandyDon translated this into his post of:
"so the crew member tried the next one by just opening it, and when it starting expelling pure O2 - someone had the sense to tell him to throw it overboard before it'd explode."

I'm not certain why you do not want pure oxygen coming out of an oxygen bottle/cylinder. I expect that is what they are meant to contain.

nimoh speculates:
"If the valve was broken, and pure oxygen was coming out, there is an immediate explosion/fire hazard, and if the valve couldn't be closed, throwing it overboard may have been the best option."

From what I can see, we have not heard a reason why the second Oxygen cylinder was thrown overboard, we only have speculation.

.

I believe the first was empty and the second, evidently had a uncontroled release of O2 so was tossed. Which probably was not a bad idea. As seen here and in recent catastrophic accidents O2 is nothing to F around with.

 

[nimoh]

Just to keep the discussion from about the O2 going way off of the rails:

The original information from the news report/interview was that:
"Sterbenz also said the medical equipment on board was faulty with dry rotted emergency oxygen masks on board. As for the tanks that attach to it, Sterbenz said the first was empty and an employee threw the other overboard."
"Poor young man kind of freaked out," said Sterbenz. "He said it's going to blow, and he threw the oxygen overboard."

DandyDon translated this into his post of:
"so the crew member tried the next one by just opening it, and when it starting expelling pure O2 - someone had the sense to tell him to throw it overboard before it'd explode."

I'm not certain why you do not want pure oxygen coming out of an oxygen bottle/cylinder. I expect that is what they are meant to contain.

nimoh speculates:
"If the valve was broken, and pure oxygen was coming out, there is an immediate explosion/fire hazard, and if the valve couldn't be closed, throwing it overboard may have been the best option."

From what I can see, we have not heard a reason why the second Oxygen cylinder was thrown overboard, we only have speculation.

If the diver was already dead, giving oxygen is like putting gas in a car with no engine, a fruitless effort. But there is no excuse for not having working O2 systems on board, which are useful in other situations.

sorry, I thought it was readily apparent that there wasn't enough information to determine what happened. From some of the posts, I was interpreting an implication that the crew member must have been a complete idiot to throw the oxygen cylinder overboard, and was merely presenting a possible scenario (as did DandyDon) in which it would be prudent to throw oxygen overboard.

FWIW, you left out the last part of my post:

I'm not saying it was the best option, just proposing a hypothetical scenario in which throwing the bottle overboard would be prudent.

 

[Xfiend]

I feel like people are confused what CPR (chest compression and rescue breathing) can and can't do.

CPR CAN
provide oxygen to brain and cardiac tissues in a pt. with cardiac or respiratory arrest
extend the window of time to allow Advanced Cardiac Life Support procedures to remain effective

CPR CAN'T
revive the dead

Here's a shocking FYI, the percentage of cardiac arrest patients that survive greater then 24 hours after receiving CPR IN A HOSPITAL is an abysmal 9.2 percent.

Cardiac arrest on a boat, miles from the nearest hospital is a death sentence. I know I'm being a negative nancy, but I'm not advocating not attempting CPR. In fact lay rescuers (and in many cases, trained rescuers) have difficulty differentiating between an unconscious state, respiratory arrest, and an actual cardiac arrest. Attempting chest compressions could expel water from the lungs in a near drowning, stimulate an unconscious person or provide both short and long term emotional solace for rescuers and the victims family.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Does a leaking oxygen bottle really necessitate a toss over board? Seriously?

 

[tempoffroad]

Does a leaking oxygen bottle really necessitate a toss over board? Seriously?

That's probably a judgement call that someone will have to answer to. Just a bad chain of events.

 

[DandyDon]

If I witness a fast leak from an O2 bottle onboard, it or I are going overboard.

What happened on this boat, we're not clear.

 

[nimoh]

Does a leaking oxygen bottle really necessitate a toss over board? Seriously?

probably not unless the leak is fast enough, it might only take a couple of tanks to bang together, for ignition, and the boats on fire. I think it's a judgement call.

I'm not saying they exercised good judgement, but they may have.