Getting C-Cards Without Testing?

[MXGratefulDiver]

I thought the only purpose of having a written test is to protect the instructor (and possibly the agency) against any future liability claim. It provides an auditable record that the student completed the course and knew the material if anything happens subsequently. If the Instructor feels comfortable doing an oral / in course assessment I don't see why this should be any less satisfactory in terms of actual testing.

Most of the scuba written exams I've seen over the years are little more than a test of your ability to memorize certain segments out of the corresponding student handbook. Many of the questions are worded in such a manner that what they're really testing is your ability to interpret the question. Some have little or nothing to do with scuba diving, and are more aimed at promoting the agency or reinforcing the notion that you should buy another class. Some are just confusing, or leave you wondering why this is on an exam. For the most part ... with the exception of the NAUI Master Diver exam ... I've found written exams to be a weak and ineffective evaluation of the student's retention of class materials.

Sometimes I get the impression that the folks who write these exams randomly pick passages from the student handbook and frame a question around the words in a paragraph ... without considering the context that gives it meaning. That doesn't really test a student's knowledge ... it merely tests their ability to remember certain things they read, regardless of whether or not they understand what it means ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Tristan.ak]

Just an off-the-wall devil's advocate question . . . Why?

Just because a couple of ladies chatted that one learned from a family member doesn't mean anything . . . The word 'test' or 'exam' has different meanings -- I cannot remember a test for aow, but that doesn't mean I didn't have to demonstrate proficiency of the skills.

I'm curious why you think you have to go 'quiz' these people . . .

:sinq:

I agree with you on this, who makes anyone the scuba police. All I see is them asking are "Who the #$#% are you?" I think you the OP would be over stepping the line on what people do and regardless if they have formal training. If they didn't have the formal training I don't see what you can do, what are you going to tell PADI on them?

Im not trying to be mean, but who died and made you pope? Let them do what they want and enjoy it. You might make a friend or become the biggest turd on the block if you push them around.

 

[eelnoraa]

hmm, if PADI written exam counts, I remembered having that in both of my OW and AOW. I learned a lot in OW and not so much in AOW. I guess written exam doesn't mean much.

Let me ask comment on another similar scenario. Diver A bought a drysuit used. He only got a little initial training from the seller (who is an instructor). Since, he has been diving drysuit for a few years, hundres of dives. Because he never had an official drysuit cert, he can't rent drysuit. Instead of taking a course, he negociated with a instructor and get drysuit cert without taking the class. The purpose of the cert is only to enable he to rent drysuit. So is this a wrong doing? I would like to know what the general public think.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

hmm, if PADI written exam counts, I remembered having that in both of my OW and AOW. I learned a lot in OW and not so much in AOW. I guess written exam doesn't mean much.

Let me ask comment on another similar scenario. Diver A bought a drysuit used. He only got a little initial training from the seller (who is an instructor). Since, he has been diving drysuit for a few years, hundres of dives. Because he never had an official drysuit cert, he can't rent drysuit. Instead of taking a course, he negociated with a instructor and get drysuit cert without taking the class. The purpose of the cert is only to enable he to rent drysuit. So is this a wrong doing? I would like to know what the general public think.

It depends on the nature of the negotiation. I have a friend who's been diving since he got a NAUI Jr. Scuba Diver cert back in the '80's. He never got another certification afterward, despite hundreds of dives ... many of them at way beyond OW level. When he wanted to get his son certified he asked me if I could update his card to Scuba Diver. I said sure ... take the written exam and pay the cost of the C-card. The only reason I said that was because I'd been diving with the guy for a couple of years, and knew that he was way beyond the level of OW scuba diver. Heck ... he'd probably pass the Master Diver exam without even studying for it. I still had him take the exam ... it's my record that he qualified for the card.

As for drysuit ... I don't own a drysuit card, although I have issued several ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[flots am]

We recenly discovered that another couple at our church sometimes scuba dives. My wife once asked the lady about their training and she said that her brother (maybe brother-in-law) was an instructor and showed them how to do it when they were in hawaii. But they didn't take any tests.

It's entirely possible to dive without a certification card of any kind. All you need is the equipment and a place to get compressed air. It's also possible to get a C-Card without taking any tests if your instructor is willing to falsify the paperwork.

Whether or not you can dive safely depends on the training you have received, which may or may not come with a C-Card.

Conversely, having a C-Card doesn't mean you've been trained properly or know how to dive safely.

The real purposes of a C-Card is to limit the liability of dive industry members (dive boats, shops, etc.) by certifying that the holder knows how to dive safely and to create more business for dive shops by selling "specialty" certifications.

Having a C-Card means that if a boat takes you out to a 30' reef and you manage to kill yourself, they can say that you knew how to dive and it's not their fault. It also means that when you grow tired of 30' dives, and want to do a 110' dive, the dive shop gets to sell you an "advanced" certification.

In fact, in the distant past there was no such thing as a "C-Card" and learning to dive meant finding someone who knew how and having them teach you.

flots.

 

[Jax]

... what skills did you have to demonstrate for AOW?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Ouch! You're testing me! That was ten years ago! :lol: It wasn't much, but . . .

Navigation - Handed us a route on a slate, followed us through it. I cheated though - by the second turn, I noticed there was 'something' that indicated the turn point - a large rock, the corner of a discarded net. I did MUCH better than my hubby. *snicker*

Night dive - briefed the dive plan, demonstrated signals underwater, came up at appropriate time, signaled to boat for accountability.

Deep dive - demonstrate appropriate deeper safety stops, even though we didn't go past NDLs. Narcosis tests at depth. Did buddy breathing and air-share during ascent. Owed margaritas because we came up on the wrong boat.

I think search and recovery was one of the others . .

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Ouch! You're testing me! That was ten years ago! :lol: It wasn't much, but . . .

Navigation - Handed us a route on a slate, followed us through it. I cheated though - by the second turn, I noticed there was 'something' that indicated the turn point - a large rock, the corner of a discarded net. I did MUCH better than my hubby. *snicker*

Night dive - briefed the dive plan, demonstrated signals underwater, came up at appropriate time, signaled to boat for accountability.

Deep dive - demonstrate appropriate deeper safety stops, even though we didn't go past NDLs. Narcosis tests at depth. Did buddy breathing and air-share during ascent. Owed margaritas because we came up on the wrong boat.

I think search and recovery was one of the others . .

No test ... just curiosity ... I'm always looking to see what other instructors are doing with their classes ... and I'll shamelessly steal any ideas that I think will benefit my students ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Jax]

No test ... just curiosity ... I'm always looking to see what other instructors are doing with their classes ... and I'll shamelessly steal any ideas that I think will benefit my students ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

:joke:

Our local guy is a teacher in dry life; he will not pass you unless he believes you know it.

Although, I did freak him out on the deep dive - we headed down to a sandy area about 100FSW, when around 95 I started looking like I was break-dancing the macarena. Poor guy came over to rescue me from a 'panic narc', when the stone fish I was about to "land" on took off. Hey, I had only 25 dives and my buoyancy wasn't all I wished it was.

First time I ever saw anyone belly-laugh underwater.

 

[Rileybri]

a church group queston and no on asked WWJD?

 

[scubadiveilat]

No need to speculate!!!

They've done an exam.