ianr33
Contributor
Is it known for sure the Ginnie fatality was an OW diver in the cave?
Ginnie 3-18-2012
- Thread starter Cave Diver
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So I see references to what may have happened. Before more tangents take off, does anyone know the divers training, what he tried, and what went wrong?
TracyN
Contributor
This is shocking, sad, and sobering. In my opinion I don't think OW divers should be allowed in the Devil's System side of Ginnie. My condolences to the family and friends of the diver. Kudos to the recovery divers for doing a job that no one wants to ever have to do.
You are correct, of course. But,... if you think about it (& I completely disagree with it), The Ginnie cavern is considered to be a "safe" one for Open water divers to go into. Many do so daily. I'm not saying this is where the diver was found, as I've heard there is some conflicting reports about where he was found. Even the cavern also has some areas in there that could be considered in the cave zone (can not see daylight). Even so, I still feel that the cavern is beyond the training of an OW diver with no cavern training.
ucfdiver
Contributor
This is irrelevant as the diver wasn't found in the ballroom. Devils system is never advertised as ow safe, and the diver wasn't found in the cavern zone anyways.
Never said where he was or was not found, nor did I say that the Devil's system was considered safe. I was referring to the post I replied to, in the realm of entering an overhead environment, untrained, in general. So, no,... not entirely irrelevant.
PirateBadass
New
I was at the springs as the emergency crews were working. I didn't really get much information, but I can confirm they were either in Devil's Eye or possibly Devil's Ear.
I can imagine a scenario based on my own experiences there. We did a trip with the shop I OW certed with to the springs. The instructor - not cave certed - no redundancy at all - and not even doing a cavern class encouraged all the divers in the group to drop into the eye and the ear and "look" into the systems. We did not have lights but I remember dropping into the ear as a team was exiting the cave and seeing just a bit of it. While it holds no draw for me now, based on my interests and some fairly recent experiences in a rock overhead, the sight was intoxicating for a new diver and I could clearly see the temptation.
On that same trip he took us on drift from the eye/ear area down the river to the ballroom. Never was any mention made about staying together as a team, we did no drills, just went to the grate and looked in. Again, an intoxicating and beckoning sight. We even did a night dive in the ballroom where we KNEELED on the floor and he tore chem light sticks apart to create a starry effect.
While we watched the video about caves they require you to see before diving I can't honestly say I remember doing it. What I do remember is the utter lack of serious discussion about how you can die and die in a horrible manner if you screw up. And I gather that other instructors do the same crap with their OW students. That is how a scenario such as this can happen. Don't scare off the new divers with real discussion about the risks of overheads and for that matter diving in general.
That is what could have possibly happened. I know it could have easily been me 8 years ago or so. Not a skills issue. But a training and knowledge issue that by being so lacking could have resulted in another fatality. All in the name of selling a trip, class, etc.
On that same trip he took us on drift from the eye/ear area down the river to the ballroom. Never was any mention made about staying together as a team, we did no drills, just went to the grate and looked in. Again, an intoxicating and beckoning sight. We even did a night dive in the ballroom where we KNEELED on the floor and he tore chem light sticks apart to create a starry effect.
While we watched the video about caves they require you to see before diving I can't honestly say I remember doing it. What I do remember is the utter lack of serious discussion about how you can die and die in a horrible manner if you screw up. And I gather that other instructors do the same crap with their OW students. That is how a scenario such as this can happen. Don't scare off the new divers with real discussion about the risks of overheads and for that matter diving in general.
That is what could have possibly happened. I know it could have easily been me 8 years ago or so. Not a skills issue. But a training and knowledge issue that by being so lacking could have resulted in another fatality. All in the name of selling a trip, class, etc.
Well, just remember, folks, we don't know if this is even medically related.
Absolutely, right now, the primary take away is Do not dive beyond your training and experience level!
There is nothing in a cave worth dying for. Just don't go in.
Absolutely, right now, the primary take away is Do not dive beyond your training and experience level!
There is nothing in a cave worth dying for. Just don't go in.
PfcAJ
Contributor
Yea, ow diver gets pulled out of cave. Must be a medical.
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