Goodbye ponies

[texdiveguy]

I am a recreational diver. My dives are typically between 70ft and 100ft in 75 degree seawater. I dive single, nitrox, +/-100 cu ft, steel tanks. I always dive with a backup regulator and a partner. Years ago my dives were made with a 30 cu ft pony strapped to my single tank. I have recently quit using the ponies and I have begun to rethink the desire for using the pony. I have been thinking a lot lately about air-delivery, failure modes, between the tank and my lungs. I have read that if one were to have a free flow, that one can fold the hose over and crimp it off. Somewhat like one does a garden hose.

I have heard that primary regulator failures (the one on top of the tank), under the conditions of which I dive, are practically unheard of.

Here are the questions: I have heard o-rings pop (fail) topside, but do o-rings ever fail during a dive? Do primary regulators ever just stop working? Do hoses suddenly rupture?

I am trying to build an argument for not carrying pony bottles around in my travels.

Lee, I could not bring myself to ever talk someone into not carrying a redundant gas delivery system (pony bottle). As a good diver I am sure you plan your dives and stick to those pre-set plans, I also wager you maintain your gear and diving skills. Regardless of how hard we try and avoid becoming complacent in our diving those dive gremlins do at times raise their heads and try to ruin our day. The effort of maintaining and carrying (slinging) a small pony bottle- say 19cf is of very little effort but can play into the happy results of so many various u/w incidents. I vote you again add the insurance coverage of a pony bottle to your gear configuration.

 

[shoredivr]

Like you have said, the chances of you having a problem is very remote and in the unlikely event it does happen, your buddy is there.

BDSC

I often dive in cold water with instabuddies. No idea if they'll be there if I need 'em. I like to be self-sufficient, hence, doubles, or slung Al30

 

[John_B]

I'll just add that I've never had a fire burn my house down or a storm blow it apart but I still purchase insurance.

Not a great analogy.

Insurance doesn't prevent fire from burning down your house or prevent it from being blown down in a storm. Its simply an after-the-fact financial transaction.

 

[String]

Blind reliance on an unpredictable 3rd party, is in my view, dangerous.

 

[fire_diver]

Not a great analogy.

Insurance doesn't prevent fire from burning down your house or prevent it from being blown down in a storm. Its simply an after-the-fact financial transaction.

OK, how bout these....

My house has never burned down from an electrical short, but I have a breaker panel anyways.

I have never been killed by breathing toxic smoke of a house fire, but I have smoke detectors.

I haven't had a flat tire on road but I carry a spare.

Now, I DO carry a pony, and I have had o-rings go out and regs free-flow. Happening at depth and at the end of a dive, I could be out of air in a matter of seconds. Always be prepared. Hope for the best and plan for the worst.

 

[DandyDon]

If it's not an issue of transporting a tank on an airliner, then why not have a redundant system?

If you drag one through airport checked baggage, you have to pack it completely open and unplugged. It will be chilled to -20Ž° for the air flight, then dumped on the tarmac in high heat and humidity. Now you can violate your redundancy standard or tank rules that require an inspection after that treatment.

Pick your poison.

I know the TSA rule says completely open and unplugged but in my travels I have always covered the open neck with 2" black electrical tape. No problems. However the rule may be poorly written, it seems the agents know that it really means no valve. Never had it come loose either.

And if I test every Nitrox tank with my analyzer, and every tank with my CO analyzer, and never find a problem - I'll keep testing.

 

[BDSC]

Blind reliance on an unpredictable 3rd party, is in my view, dangerous.

But how would we know if his buddy is unpredictable? If we are to not rely on our buddies, then why even teach a buddy system. If a diver holds your same beliefs, then they should no doubt be diving with a pony for just peace of mind.

BDSC

 

[dave4868]

But how would we know if his buddy is unpredictable? If we are to not rely on our buddies, then why even teach a buddy system. If a diver holds your same beliefs, then they should no doubt be diving with a pony for just peace of mind.

"Whew-weee! Stank!" (Gomer Pyle voice).... "That can o' worms really smay-ells, c'mon close it up, close it uu-up!"

Could it be the reason training agencies teach the buddy system is only partly because it provides a little more safety (for less experienced new divers), but mostly because it's easier to teach and may have less legal liability than teaching self-sufficiency?

I don't blame them at all, but I very quickly stopped relying on buddies and began using a pony to help cover the rare, but potentially dangerous situations that might arise.

I might add that my pony has never caused a dangerous situation for me, whereas I've had buddies who did.

JMHO.

*END OF HIJACK*

Dave C

 

[BDSC]

"Whew-weee! Stank!" (Gomer Pyle voice).... "That can o' worms really smay-ells, c'mon close it up, close it uu-up!"

Could it be the reason training agencies teach the buddy system is only partly because it provides a little more safety (for less experienced new divers), but mostly because it's easier to teach and may have less legal liability than teaching self-sufficiency?

I don't blame them at all, but I very quickly stopped relying on buddies and began using a pony to help cover the rare, but potentially dangerous situations that might arise.

I might add that my pony has never caused a dangerous situation for me, whereas I've had buddies who did.

JMHO.

*END OF HIJACK*

Dave C

I hear ya Dave! For some people the pony is probably the way to go if they don't have a reliable buddy. I've always had the good luck of diving with friends or my wife so I know I have great buddy when I'm down there. Truth is, they are probably a better buddy to me than I am to them.

Two of my main buddies over the past years started carrying the "Spare Air" (and lets not get into the pros and cons of that ) and a pony right after they were certified. Their reasoning was the "what if" game. After one year the first guy dropped the pony set-up and it took about 3 years before the second guy dropped the "Spare Air" rig. I think it was in part they had become more experienced divers and were more comfortable with their skills to be able to handle situations as they arise. I think it also had to do with the fact they never saw any other person with either of those in the caribbean settings we always dive in.

 

[dave4868]

I hear ya Dave! For some people the pony is probably the way to go if they don't have a reliable buddy. I've always had the good luck of diving with friends or my wife so I know I have great buddy when I'm down there. Truth is, they are probably a better buddy to me than I am to them.

Two of my main buddies over the past years started carrying the "Spare Air" (and lets not get into the pros and cons of that ) and a pony right after they were certified. Their reasoning was the "what if" game. After one year the first guy dropped the pony set-up and it took about 3 years before the second guy dropped the "Spare Air" rig. I think it was in part they had become more experienced divers and were more comfortable with their skills to be able to handle situations as they arise. I think it also had to do with the fact they never saw any other person with either of those in the caribbean settings we always dive in.

Good points.

I agree completely that having good skills, good buddies, and relatively benign conditions preclude any significant potential value of carrying a pony.

For him, the OP is exactly right that a pony isn't worth the trouble for those very reasons.

Dave C