heard bad news while diving today

[Rick Murchison]

That's what I was looking for Rick. :thumbs_up:

Another one more related to a diver mainly for those in the States.

A person is having a serious medical problem but is still conscious. Say serious arterial bleeding.

You go over to them to help and they tell you to stay away and to not touch them. But you know if you don’t help of render some medical aid they will die within just a few minutes.

How would you handle this as a general citizen? How about a trained first responder?
How about a trained medical professional?

Gary D.

Say again??? I'm sorry, I can't hear you. Just relax, let me save your life, and then you can tell me again.
Rick

 

[GA Under Water]

heh heh thought that was kind of strange at my CPR class also. If they say, "No" then all you can do is call 911. If they pass out, feel free to administer aid. Just remember you are covered here in the states by the "Good Samaritian Law" as long as you NEVER accept any kindness from that person or anyone related in any way to that person.

 

[Walter]

yes, simply touching someone can constitute a battery (for example, touch a stranger in the neck at a movie theater; they can easily charge you with battery)


not sure what your scenario is, but grabbing a diver's mask (without touching the diver) and throwing the mask overboard could be larceny (theft) but it's certainly not battery (it could be classified as criminal mischief -- the intentional destruction of someone else's property, in this case, by making it irretrivable)

and if an officer responds and someone is saying "he threw my mask overboard" and the other person is saying "he grabbed me and threw me overboard"

guess who's going to get their attention?

If the diver is about to get in the water, the mask would have to be physically taken from the diver. Hard to imagine that taking place without touching the diver. Especially if battery includes (which you did not answer) touching items the person is wearing. Assuming the diver did not get physical in return, it looks like the DM could easily have a battery charge coming their way.

 

[fldiver1]

Well, this has turned into a "tough one to answer" then. Where I think the mask-tossing or hose cutting to prevent that person from another dive might be a good idea, I now see that it could be more legal trouble than it's worth. But here is another question, wouldnt the diver in question have a VERY hard time proving assault or in the case of cutting the hose even "attempted murder" when you have witnesses on your side testifying that you were trying to prevent his own bodily harm????? This is why when I get on a dive boat, I only present my OW card and no others. I have heard that if presenting rescue or DM or ? that you are then responsible to some extent because of your training. Is this true?

 

[Walter]

Where I think the mask-tossing or hose cutting to prevent that person from another dive might be a good idea,

Save us all from people who want to save us from ourselves.

 

[ClevelandDiver]

If the diver is about to get in the water, the mask would have to be physically taken from the diver. Hard to imagine that taking place without touching the diver. Especially if battery includes (which you did not answer) touching items the person is wearing. Assuming the diver did not get physical in return, it looks like the DM could easily have a battery charge coming their way.

Would you be willing to stand in front of a judge and say that throwing a person overboard is an appropriate response to them ripping your mask off and throwing it in the water?

The point I have been trying to make here is that escalating any situation into one where you are using physical force against someone has very serious ramifications. At the time it may seem warranted, but when a prosecutor comes after you, you will be seriously wishing you had chosen a more adult way to settle the conflict. People have lost jobs, homes, their freedom and tens of thousands of dollars in situations very much like this one.

 

[fldiver1]

What does that mean exactly, Walter? Are you saying that you would just rather let that diver hurt himself than risk getting in a confontation with them? You are probably right! And then again, I don't have the nuts to throw someone's mask over or cut their hose. But, I am a FIRM believer in prevention being the best medicine. If I could prevent it happening in some way, I would damn sure try.

 

[Walter]

Would you be willing to stand in front of a judge and say that throwing a person overboard is an appropriate response to them ripping your mask off and throwing it in the water?

At no point have I advocated such an action. In fact, where you have just quoted me, I specifically stated, "Assuming the diver did not get physical in return." What I am saying is in a situation where a DM rips off a mask, the DM has already used physical force in an inappropriate manner. Except in situations of self defense or the defense of others, physical force is not appropriate.

What does that mean exactly, Walter?

What I'm saying is you have no right to intervene. You have an obligation to point out facts, possibilities, but you have no right to try to physically restrain anyone.

 

[ClevelandDiver]

At no point have I advocated such an action. In fact, where you have just quoted me, I specifically stated, "Assuming the diver did not get physical in return." What I am saying is in a situation where a DM rips off a mask, the DM has already used physical force in an inappropriate manner. Except in situations of self defense or the defense of others, physical force is not appropriate.

My appologies, I missed the part about the diver not getting physical in return.

 

[Walter]

Not a problem, it's easy to miss things in a fast moving thread.