heard bad news while diving today

[wreckchick]

I just found out through other sources that this incident did occur. I do not have any of the details of the dive(s). The diver has been to the chamber a couple times and is doing well.

R

 

[ScubaNorth]

Frankly, if I was to do the 'mask overboard' drill it would be because I couldn't think of any other way to stop someone from doing something very, very dangerous. I'll take my chances in court.

The only time I almost did it, I was actually going to put the mask in my pocket and take it on the dive with me. It would have 'magically appeared' once we got back to the dock.

On a private boat that does not belong to me, I have very little interest in drastic measures. Divers is as divers does and except for a stern presentation of the facts, I'm not doing much else except perhaps sitting out the dive myself so that I'm not complicit in the dangerous act.

R

I think Vance Cabral of Belize would want to plead his case on the scubaboard. He lost his lic to operate for 5 years for "letting" 4 divers leave his boat in dangerous circumstances. I don't know the details but it is tough to not "let" some fool do what the are hell bent on doing.

 

[Dive-aholic]

I think Vance Cabral of Belize would want to plead his case on the scubaboard. He lost his lic to operate for 5 years for "letting" 4 divers leave his boat in dangerous circumstances. I don't know the details but it is tough to not "let" some fool do what the are hell bent on doing.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Isn't America wonderful?!?

Hey, I have an idea ! Let's do some wild speculation in the other direction.....

Let's say that dive #1 = 100', 20min / EAN 32, makes him group K, 15 min later (now group I) he discovers his Rolex missing.....A quick check on his PADI EAN 32 chart shows 13 min. NDL @ 100'.....

Don't get me wrong, I'm not crazy about this profile, but it's not off the charts - 13 min. is 13min., and a Rolex is $$$$$.

More speculation.... He plans a 10min dive @ 100', followed by a 1min. stop @ 50' 3 min. assent to 15' ect.

Somewhere along the way, the plan goes up in smoke, and he get's bent.

Now is he still stupid, or would we be offering our best wishes, and hopes for a quick recovery ?

He's still stupid.

 

[Gary D.]

I don't think there is a court in the world that would convict someone for throwing a mask overboard to prevent that person from doing something unsafe and risking his life. Even so, it would be small claims court and would probably be settled for the cost of the mask and dives. I am also quite sure that if that happened the dive op, and not the DM, would gladly pay the cost for the DM in question. If I was the operator, I would WANT a DM that would do something like this if there was a question of safety involved. Only problem I see is that someone like the guy in question would probably have tried to start a fistfight over his mask being thrown in.

That one is even better, CUT the airhose!! I like it!! To be truthful though, like I said earlier, I wouldnt care if it was rental or the guys personal equipment. I would rather GIVE him a new hose when we got back to the dock than let him go back in.

Lets look at this from another angle.

As a DM you are a professional charged with the safety and well being of the people around you. Right?

So we have already hashed out what a DM will and will not do or should and should not do. Right?

Now lets move into another profession that has professionals charged with similar duties.

A young male, just as an example, is ridding a motorcycle through a residential neighborhood at a high rate of speed. People keep calling 911 on this person who is acting like an idiot swerving in and out of the traffic but remains in the same neighborhood.

The patrol units arrive and attempt to stop him but instead of stopping he accelerates to speeds nearing 100 mph but stays in the same residential area.

What should anyone including the police do?

Gary D.

 

[wreckchick]

That's not even close to an analogous situation. There are ways to prevent the diver from getting in the water without harming him but to stop the motorcycle will almost certainly lead to injury.

R

 

[Rick Murchison]

So you wouldn't stop a drunk driver from driving away your house either? It is the exact same analogy. ...

No, it isn't analogous at all. There is a legitimate public safety reason to keep drunks off the road. We don't try to do it to protect the drunk, but to protect the rest of us. A terminally stupid diver isn't likely to have a head-on with some poor unsuspecting victim, unless someone's stupid enough to dive as his/her buddy.
Rick

 

[SmokinReefer]

Hey, I have an idea ! Let's do some wild speculation in the other direction.....

Let's say that dive #1 = 100', 20min / EAN 32, makes him group K, 15 min later (now group I) he discovers his Rolex missing.....A quick check on his PADI EAN 32 chart shows 13 min. NDL @ 100'.....

Don't get me wrong, I'm not crazy about this profile, but it's not off the charts - 13 min. is 13min., and a Rolex is $$$$$.

More speculation.... He plans a 10min dive @ 100', followed by a 1min. stop @ 50' 3 min. assent to 15' ect.

Somewhere along the way, the plan goes up in smoke, and he get's bent.

Now is he still stupid, or would we be offering our best wishes, and hopes for a quick recovery ?

For a similar reason, this is why I always wear my Sea Dweller diving. Whoever drags my lifeless body back up and returns it to my family gets to keep the $5K watch. My family and friends already know these instructions......

Now if I owned the Philippe Patek mentioned earlier, that would still be home on the dresser. As a matter of fact, it would probably never leave the dresser. Nothing like losing, or flooding for that matter, a $20K or more watch. I guess it's all relative though.....

Smokin

 

[Rick Murchison]

Lets look at this from another angle.

As a DM you are a professional charged with the safety and well being of the people around you. Right?

So we have already hashed out what a DM will and will not do or should and should not do. Right?

Now lets move into another profession that has professionals charged with similar duties.

A young male, just as an example, is ridding a motorcycle through a residential neighborhood at a high rate of speed. People keep calling 911 on this person who is acting like an idiot swerving in and out of the traffic but remains in the same neighborhood.

The patrol units arrive and attempt to stop him but instead of stopping he accelerates to speeds nearing 100 mph but stays in the same residential area.

What should anyone including the police do?

Gary D.

You'd stop him of course. But you wouldn't stop him because of a danger to him. You'd stop him because he is creating a danger to you and the neighbors and your children. Public safety trumps individual freedom. But with a diver there is no public safety issue - and while as a fellow human you have a duty to warn or even to stop someone from doing something terminally stupid - you have no right to do so. There must be an overriding public interest before you can interfere with someone's freedom. (At least that's the general idea we're supposed to use in restricting the actions of government here in the USA, though do-gooders frequently don't follow it).
Rick

 

[Gary D.]

You'd stop him of course. But you wouldn't stop him because of a danger to him. You'd stop him because he is creating a danger to you and the neighbors and your children. Public safety trumps individual freedom. But with a diver there is no public safety issue - and while as a fellow human you have a duty to warn or even to stop someone from doing something terminally stupid - you have no right to do so. There must be an overriding public interest before you can interfere with someone's freedom. (At least that's the general idea we're supposed to use in restricting the actions of government here in the USA, though do-gooders frequently don't follow it).
Rick

That's what I was looking for Rick. :thumbs_up:

Another one more related to a diver mainly for those in the States.

A person is having a serious medical problem but is still conscious. Say serious arterial bleeding.

You go over to them to help and they tell you to stay away and to not touch them. But you know if you don’t help of render some medical aid they will die within just a few minutes.

How would you handle this as a general citizen? How about a trained first responder?
How about a trained medical professional?

Gary D.

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

Say "Look, if I dont help you, you will surely die. Your bleeding everywhere, let me help you so you can make it back to your family!"


If they dont want you to still, just plead a couple more times, I know I couldnt live with myself if I didnt try to get them to let me help...