Hello! Tale of an extreme initiation to diving

[OctopusLover]

Hello all.

I recently took a long vacation to SE Asia, no intent to dive. After a few weeks of enduring extreme heat I had enough and decided to head to a mild island and try diving. I ended up in Koh Tao and after the open water, I immediately decided I wanted more. I felt somewhat hindered by other students who only wanted the license and didn't really actually care for learning anything, my instructor mentioned if I wanted to do continue training past OW I'd be alone with her so I went for it as a way to get private tutoring. Honestly this was a great idea, I got 100 times more actual learning time and felt like I really learnt to dive. With only 9 dives, 5 days back to back, and for 700$ total I ended up with OW + AOW + Nitrox. I was ready to do fun dives straight after but I'm asthmatic (have been cleared by thai and uk doctors separately since) and the combination of dry air from diving + dry air from strong A/C at night started to give me a bad cough a couple days after the last AOW dive and didn't want to risk it, so I stopped.

1 month later (last week) I was in Crete for a week and thought I'd try a fun dive. The first 2 fun dives were in a wall down to 36 meters. The instructor seemingly wanted to challenge me because he thought it was hilarious I got certified so quickly. I literally had to tell him to go up because my computer was showing 1 minute of NDL I moved to a different area of the island. 3rd and 4th the instructor was kind of baffled and started by having me demonstrating some basic skills to him (mask/regulator clearing), then showing me the local area. At the end he was commenting on how good my buyoancy/air consumption were (yay!) and invited me to join him and a dive master candidate on an "easy cave dive" the day after. At first I thought I understood that the "cave" would be short passages (I swear he said only a few meters) so I agreed. I only really agreed to this because the instructor was almost 60 years old and had been diving the area for 40 years. I felt very safe with him. Turns out the caves are actually 20/30 meters long but he said he's comfortable taking non-cave divers there because you can always see where the exit is. So yeah, my 5th and 6th fun dives ever were in complete darkness in caves.

I'm not sure how uncommon this experience actually is and I'm not encouraging people to follow this path, but it is my experience and wanted to share

 

[drrich2]

Welcome to ScubaBoard. That's more interesting than the typical early training story! A few comments:

I literally had to tell him to go up because my computer was showing 1 minute of NDL

This is good. You may find (especially with some older threads) some contempt for 'trust me' dives where a customer is over-dependent on a professional guide, but in the real world where the guide if often taking you on a reef tour and knows the layout (and you don't), there's an element of 'trust me' in a lot of recreational diving.

But...you still need to be responsible for yourself, monitoring your remaining gas supply and NDL. You did.

and invited me to join him and a dive master candidate on an "easy cave dive"

At first I thought I understood that the "cave" would be short passages (I swear he said only a few meters) so I agreed.

Turns out the caves are actually 20/30 meters deep but he said he's comfortable taking non-cave divers there because you can always see where the exit is. So yeah, my 5th and 6th fun dives ever were in complete darkness in caves.

I'm not sure how uncommon this experience actually is

I'd say rare, and a bit scary to read. People vary in their risk assessment and tolerance, particularly as it applies to leading others. I'm a recreational diver, no professional or technical training, and my frame of reference is mainly the U.S.A. and Caribbean region dive community, so take this with a grain of salt:

1.) Overhead diving is strongly frowned upon for people who lack training in dealing with it, which normally wouldn't happen until having significantly more experience than you had at the time. The one exception is swim throughs, such as fairly short passages under coral or 'sanitized' wrecks led by a guide.

2.) Entering a cave but staying without direct sight of the exit, visible via natural lighting, makes me think of people talking about cavern diving.

3.) Cave diver discussions on SB have left me with the impression that finning into a cave you may face excellent viz., but without proper finning technique your fins may be stirring up silt behind you, so when you turn around, you may be facing terrible viz.

That's bad, but if the cave route you need to pass to exit has any forks, you can get lost, which may soon mean an awful death.

4.) I'm confused by your references to how 'deep' the cave (or was it caves) were. Are you talking about how deep below the water's surface the entrance to the cave was, or how far from the entrance into the cave you guys penetrated?

5.) I'm not dissing the old instructor who presumably wanted to share something special with you early in your diving, though what he did would earn condemnation from some. I see the main danger for you as this experience potentially setting you up to have a cavalier attitude toward overhead diving, which could put you at risk.

There's a concept called 'normalization of deviance' that shows up in some SB discussions. In a nutshell, someone exceeds proper limits in an activity (e.g.: diving too fast), and nothing bad happens. So...over time, he gets desensitized to the danger and gradually increases his risk taking. After all, he's been doing it awhile and nothing bad ever happened.

But diving, much like driving a car on ice, is sometimes 'okay until it isn't,' and when things go bad, it can be sudden and severe.

Apologies if this sounds overdone. Your post reads like somebody with good sense, not a reckless person looking for excuses to thrill seek. Others may come along and offer other perspectives.

 

[OctopusLover]

Thanks for the through reply, not overdone at all!

But...you still need to be responsible for yourself, monitoring your remaining gas supply and NDL. You did.

My surprise wasn't so much that he'd expect me to monitor my NDL, rather taking me to 36m on what he knew was my first dive after training ever, and knowing my previous max depth was 25m. My instructor trained me to swim with my computer in front of me and to watch it like a hawk when at depth, yet I was caught a bit by surprise by just how much quicker the NDL was decreasing. Previous to this dive, I don't think I had ever seen NDL under 10 minutes.

but without proper finning technique your fins may be stirring up silt behind you, so when you turn around, you may be facing terrible viz.

He did mention not to do this, and we went there very early to ensure we were the first so that other divers hadn't stirred anything. Visibility was excellent (see picture).

I'm confused by your references to how 'deep' the cave (or was it caves) were. Are you talking about how deep below the water's surface the entrance to the cave was, or how far from the entrance into the cave you guys penetrated?

The cave was relatively shallow, 5-10 meters, but the horizontal distance between entrance and exit was 20-30 meters.

2.) Entering a cave but staying without direct sight of the exit, visible via natural lighting, makes me think of people talking about cavern diving.

Plenty of times during these dives I was in a "room" inside the cave in complete darkness (can't see up from down or how far from the walls I was without the flashlight), but I could always see the light (however faint) from the entrance or the exit (or both). There was never a narrow passage.

I see the main danger for you as this experience potentially setting you up to have a cavalier attitude toward overhead diving, which could put you at risk.

There's a concept called 'normalization of deviance'

Yeah I'm familiar with this (it's a common theme at my job as a software engineer). Part of the reason for me posting this is that I'm not sure if my surprise at these boundaries being pushed (diving below 30m and not open water) is common and I'm being too cautious or if I should avoid repeating these type of things in the future. Hard to get a sense for what's normal as a beginner...

 

[grf88]

My introduction to diving was also interesting. I was on vacation in Cozumel in 1979 and towards the end I thought I should try scuba. I met an instructor down a Chankanaab Lagoon, this was when it was at the side of the main road and not part of a park. I was given a brief introduction on how to use the regulator and how to inflate the horse collar by mouth. There was no pressure gauge but the tank had a J-Valve. After about 15 minutes we crossed the road and went for a dive including going through a swim through with almost no light. When we had finished the dive I was asked what I thought and I mentioned the mass of fish was rather intimidating. At that point they gave me another tank and said come back when it is empty. Not knowing any better I then did my first solo dive which they made more interesting by him throwing food into the water to create a feeding frenzy. When it got a little hard to breathe I pulled on the J-Valve and surfaced. The next day I was diving the Palancar Reef.

 

[OctopusLover]

When it got a little hard to breathe I pulled on the J-Valve and surfaced

I got shivers from reading this. Thanks for sharing!

 

[scubadada]

Hi @OctopusLover

I have told this story before. I was doing a dive on the Duane, a relatively deep, artificial reef in Key Largo, Florida. I was by myself and was assigned an instabuddy for the dive. My buddy was a young, fit, man who had just finished OW, AOW, and nitrox with 9 dives. He had done very well in his classes and was cleared to do this more advanced dive.

We had a discussion before the dive. He was confident in his abilities. He was to first let me know when he was down to a half tank, 1500 psi.

There was strong current that day, as is fairly common on the Duane. The swim to the down line and the descent were moderately strenuous. We swam on the main deck at around 100 ft into the current to the bow. After a short time I inquired as to his gas pressure and he signaled that he was already down to 800 psi. We drifted back to the stern line and ascended to the safety stop, When the safety stop was finished, I watched him surface and gain the ladder for reboarding. I descended and finished my dive.

Following the dive, we had a debrief. He described how he has been surprised by the brisk current and the effort that was required for the descent and initial swimming. He had also underestimated the effect of depth on his gas consumption. He was so concerned about swimming in the current that he had forgotten to check his gas. I think he learned a lot that day. He did fine on a shallow reef second dive.

I'm glad you did well on your first dives following certification. Take care in your future diving.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Great stories! Welcome to SB!

As others have mentioned, a term you will see is "trust-me dive." I don't think there is a formal definition, but I think of it as a dive in which the diver is not confident of his ability to get to the surface safely at all points in the dive without assistance. Beware of falling into the trust-me pit.

The other point, which others have also mentioned, is that cavern (sea cave) dives in some places in the world are not done with the highest safety standards. I don't know about Crete, but (to slander another country) I have heard of such in Italy. The bright spot for you is that there is a course you can take that some training agencies call "Cavern Diver" and others call "Overhead Diver," but which will educate you as to the risks involved and how they can be mitigated. When you know the risks and techniques, you will be in a better position next time to know whether the dive is wise to do under the circumstances or not.

Welcome to the sport!

 

[Altamira]

I got shivers from reading this. Thanks for sharing!

That is generally the way things were done when diving OW, you had a earlier vintage regulator, J-valved tank, and no SPG. That is the way my first 72 cf steel tank was configured in 1965. I liked the J-valve a lot, especially when SPGs were not available, because you could usually rely on getting that extra 300 psi of air. However, you had to remember to push the J valve into the closed position after filling the tank, and then into the open position when the reg began to breath hard. Without question, I am much happier diving now with my SP regs and a SPG for comfort and safety.