"Helpful" male dive buddies

[pocky21]

The last time I tried to help a girl out who was obviously struggling to don her gear, I was harshly scorned.

The next time, I sat and watched, and was harshly scorned.

Seems the only logical end is to look the other way, one's conscience can't be bothered if one doesn't know. I can't help but wonder if women have lost the ability to distinguish between a helpful gesture and an advance - I know I've lost the ability to discern when the situation calls for one, the other, or doing nothing at all. Gotta agree with Dr. L on this one - the mind boggles.

 

[Quero]

Referring to my behavior? I certainly wouldn't call it creepy. Maybe I misread the intent of your post... or was it my humor that offended? I think the vast majority of women who actually know me consider me to be a gentleman.

The issue referenced in the original post is certainly creepy.

Yes, the behavior as described in the OP certainly was objectionable. I'm glad you're always a gentleman on board a boat, even though you do occasionally make posts with a certain, shall we say, innuendo, attached to them. It's often the case that online banter gives a far different impression than that in face to face interactions, so we need to give people the benefit of the doubt when they're posting, but if they're boorish in person, as some are, well, then, corrective actions are in order. I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't be overly sensitive to information about marine life if we were to meet on a boat somewhere. But I'm also not, as you describe, a "hot young lady (you know, say in their 40s)" any longer, so maybe you'd not even consider being especially friendly to me. Who knows?

 

[fisheater]

Quero: I can vouch that Dr. Bill is, in person, friendly with everyone. (Even this overweight, old guy!)

 

[chillyinCanada]

Pocky21, in either case you've described did you say words to the effect "mind if I give you a hand with that?"

I've asked for help when needed and find myself asking more and more often. You know, the passage of time combined with various injuries and shortage of aerobic exercise . . .but if I get a sense of someone being creepy, well, suffice to say I'll figure out another way to get it done.

From time to time I don't mind a little banter, that said there are limits. Who knows, I probably even cross them myself sometimes going in the other direction. Been known to have a bawdy sense of humor.

This is a difficult medium to try and explain how one knows the difference. Perhaps it is like Justice Stewart attempting to describe pornography "I know it when I see it".

Let's all kiss and make up now and keep our hands to ourselves in the future. I know I'm going to try and take this thread as a learning experience.

 

[oldschoolto]

The OP said that she and her husband dive with the same group of divers all the time.... she does " KNOW " these people.... maybe not very well , But they are far from strangers .... It's not a total stranger walking up out of the blue and touching her gear...

I'm sure to get flamed for this.... But.... Girls , Ladies or women.... Put your big girl panties on and get over it.... We have threads about changing in and out of wetsuits and most women take it in stride that sometimes a little too much is exposed.... :shocked2: And a few are horrified that a guy looked at them in their thong micro bikini ... I dive with my wife.... She is very easy on the eyes.... She could care less about someone that we dive with seeing a boob or checking that her tank is on... just as I don't care if some 19yr old in that micro thong is checking me out....

Jim......

 

[chillyinCanada]

Thanks oldschool, didn't take long at all for another male forum member to come into Women's Perspectives sub forum and tell the women how they should act and feel. Good work.

 

[drbill]

Here is my position on this issue. Touching without a request to do so is a solid "no no." Taking a person (male or female) aside and suggesting they consider doing something is not wrong if it is a safety-related issue. I've seen some really serious errors on the part of both male and female divers... such as the one who went in the dive park without his weights OR tank and fumbled at the surface dragging his regulator behind his BCD or the instructor who had her BCD mounted 90 degrees off and later exhibited absolutely no buoyancy control).

---------- Post added September 6th, 2013 at 10:10 AM ----------

The last time I tried to help a girl out who was obviously struggling to don her gear, I was harshly scorned.

The next time, I sat and watched, and was harshly scorned.

We all need to understand that each individual is different and accept that the best approach is the least intrusive one.

 

[nimoh]

The last time I tried to help a girl out who was obviously struggling to don her gear, I was harshly scorned.

The next time, I sat and watched, and was harshly scorned.

Seems the only logical end is to look the other way, one's conscience can't be bothered if one doesn't know. I can't help but wonder if women have lost the ability to distinguish between a helpful gesture and an advance - I know I've lost the ability to discern when the situation calls for one, the other, or doing nothing at all. Gotta agree with Dr. L on this one - the mind boggles.

helping someone with their gear without being asked is worthy of a good scorning.

staring at someone while they are putting their gear together is also worthy of a good scorning.

this seems more like common sense than dive ettiquette

 

[pocky21]

helping someone with their gear without being asked is worthy of a good scorning.

staring at someone while they are putting their gear together is also worthy of a good scorning.

this seems more like common sense than dive ettiquette

Admittedly, there is no such thing as common sense when it comes to me and social interactions - men or women. I must have a mental block or something, but I've learned every "people skill" I know by trial and error.

Having said that, the first instance was a shore dive where the person in question was trying to don her BC standing up and couldn't pull the tank up to get her second arm in - as she huffed and puffed and about fell over, I picked the tank up for her, never touching her or any other part of her gear. I considered this person a somewhat distant friend, so I did what any friend would do and lent a helping hand - no, I didn't ask, she was about to fall over and bust her head on something.

The second instance was from across the dive boat with a stranger, where the DMs were helping out with gear anyway. To say I was staring would be a little excessive, I just happened to notice and tune in on it before the DMs did. Now it would seem a little weird to me if someone were to get up, walk across the dive boat, and attempt to lend assistance when a DM who gets paid to do these things is mere feet away (all he had to do was turn around). So no, I didn't ask, in fact I'm a little confused as to why I was singled out across the boat as "that guy" in this instance anyway.

Does the situation change the frame of reference? I don't know, perhaps my judgement is severely flawed. I have asked politely in the past, and the reply seems to be a coin toss between "no thanks"/"sure" and a negative reply varying from a frustrated sigh to an all out insult on my character. Could they be having a bad day or are just that way, maybe...I simply don't know. As someone who was raised to open doors and help the elderly cross the street, I'm finding well mannered intentions met with scorn on an ever increasing basis, and thus can only reason that such acts are no longer needed, wanted, or accepted any longer. I certainly don't want to tell anyone how to act or feel, but having a little consistency for those of us who are slow in the social department would really help to smooth things out.

 

[chillyinCanada]

Well pocky21, my perspective is you've been getting a raw deal. Of course, my perspective is derived only from reading your side of the story. It seems to me in those instances you were in "wrong place wrong time" due to being within the verbal striking zone of two people that were already frustrated with themselves. All I can offer is that from here on in "may I help you with that? " are key words in either similar scenario.