How bad is it if an LDS calls you an “internet diver”?

[Roman_66]

When I ordered my regulators, I even didn't try to order it directly with correct hoses and colors.
Exactly because of this issue - too complicated to explain what you want and most "good" prices for 1 stage + second + octopus with standard lengths and colors.
So I found sell online and ordered two "MK25 + S600" sets without octopus (why in emergency situation I need to breath from octopus regulator ? ) and 7' and short hoses separate (both Miflex for traveling). Original hoses keep at home, even don't know why...
Other 2 cents : local dive shop owns usually very nervous react on online prices.
One more : all hoses black in DIR means that color is not meaning anything, but see pictures of some famoust DIR divers, you will few colors.
I try to follow DIR rules, but use blue hose for dry suite connection, just because .... color doesn't matter.
Regardless of all above, if person didn't speak with you polite, just try to not come any more to this shop.

When I ordered my long hose, I became persona non grata at the shop, even though I was buying the danged hose FROM them!

Really ? Why ? Some DIR or technical diver beat him ?

 

[Bob DBF]

This is not uncommon. I was welcomed warmly by my LDS until I wanted to put spring straps on my fins. Then I got accused of having fallen in with those "DIR folks" (which at that time, I hadn't -- but as a result of the comments, I went home and looked it up and kind of liked what I saw.)

I bought my first pair of spring straps in the late 70's or early 80's they came stock on a pair of Farrafins by Farallon. I don't believe tech diving or DIR had been invented yet. Should have asked them if they ever sold Farallon gear.



Bob
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I may be old, but I'm not dead yet.

 

[TSandM]

You know, I couldn't really tell you why our dive shop owner was so negative about DIR diving, except that I don't think he really knew very much about it. His shop manager at the time said to me, "Why anybody would think that a diving system devised for a single cave diving project in Florida would be a good strategy for everybody makes no sense to me at all.". Interestingly, that person, who was as unpleasant to me as anybody about my new interest, has since learned to cave dive -- in Florida -- and has adopted many of the gear arrangements he was nasty to me about.

I do not know why dive shops owners a) believe they know everything there is to know about diving, and b) are so unpleasant to people who bring in new ideas. My tack shop doesn't give me a bad time if I go to do a clinic with a horse whisperer -- they're quite content to sell me anything I want to go along with a new direction. But dive shops are far less tolerant, and especially less tolerant of the whole DIR approach. This undoubtedly has to do with old, old history and personalities. It's hard to take a system that emphasizes strong skills and a strong team approach, and to that end standardizes equipment, procedures and protocols, and knock it real hard on anything except that you don't like that degree of regimentation.

 

[Max Speed]

I'd be so insulted I would post it on the internet. That would show 'em how bad I really am...

BTW- my hoses are always the color that's on sale and my weights are pink and blue...

 

[Steve_C]

This is not uncommon. I was welcomed warmly by my LDS until I wanted to put spring straps on my fins. Then I got accused of having fallen in with those "DIR folks"

I am about as far from DIR as you can get. But I have spring straps on both sets of fins. Bought at two different LDS. But I have 5 LDS within a half hour drive and shops will take any customer that they can get. All but one shop have some cave/tech divers on staff. (At least light tech). That one shop is on its way out.

 

[mathauck0814]

I generally fall on the side of "screw the LDS" as I think of it as an antiquated concept. That said... if you're not an active diver and you're obtaining more "book smarts" from reading online than you are "diving smarts" from getting in the water, is it fair to say that they're wrong? Scubaboard is a mixed bag - a lot of us live in places where we dive at least a few days a week; a lot of us live in places where we read about other people diving at least a few days a week. There are more than a few internet divers around. Your LDS sounds like a jackass (e.g., sounds like a LDS). Tell him to pound sand. Then adjust as necessary on the whole "internet diver" thing.

 

[Pao]

Good thing my favorite LDS sort of carries everything from those colorful snorkels to regulator parts that the manufacturer won't sell to you. I always believe that if there is a market your LDS will provide. They are very flexible and are current in what is going on in the industry. This is a good business model. It is something like a supermarket (not unlike your your online retailer) instead of a high end shop selling only a few high-priced items.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I do not know why dive shops owners a) believe they know everything there is to know about diving, and b) are so unpleasant to people who bring in new ideas. My tack shop doesn't give me a bad time if I go to do a clinic with a horse whisperer -- they're quite content to sell me anything I want to go along with a new direction. But dive shops are far less tolerant, and especially less tolerant of the whole DIR approach. This undoubtedly has to do with old, old history and personalities. It's hard to take a system that emphasizes strong skills and a strong team approach, and to that end standardizes equipment, procedures and protocols, and knock it real hard on anything except that you don't like that degree of regimentation.

... in our case I think it harkens back about 13-14 years ago when "the posse" ... a group of newly DIRF'd young men ... used to stand out on the wall at Cove 2 and make fun of all the new divers with their snorkels and split fins. That behavior created an image that took a great deal of effort to overcome in the mind of a lot of people ... and had absolutely NOTHING to do with their approach to diving.

Many of our LDS owners are people who were active divers 30-40 years ago, and cling to ideas and approaches that were popular back when they were active young men exploring parts of Puget Sound that had never been dived before. In some respects they continue to run their businesses in ways they were familiar with from those days ... and new ideas and approaches are hard to gain acceptance. The shop you mention deserves some credit for moving past that to some degree ... of course, that's at least partly because Peter wore them down ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Oldbear]

From what the OP has posted it is hard to visualize any justifications for LDS's actions. There is no excuse for bad business/customer practices/service. Take your business's elsewhere and the lack of your business and anyone else who you tell about this experience will directly affect his bottom line...his loss.

 

[drrich2]

While I imagine it varies a great deal regionally, a lot of divers dive shops train and do business with are mainly vacation divers and don't consistently travel with a DIR-practicing dive team, or dive in adverse conditions where the approach is apt to make a big difference (e.g. 50 - 60 minute time limit, aquarium like conditions, guided group dive, tropical), and many will use rental gear, which = jacket BCD, no long hose regulator, etc...

Given the large and growing array of product choice out there, I would imagine it is very frustration to the LDS who cannot carry such diverse offerings, to see divers able to order online and get such products sent straight to their homes at cheap prices. Very hard to compete with that. Some people post about special ordering items the shop doesn't normally carry, but from the customer standpoint, why? To charitably give the LDS a 'cut,' at the added hassle of going by the LDS, haggling on price, and having to go pick it up? Instead of it showing up at your door or workplace?

Then he hung up on me. I was caught off guard, texted him back to disregard the backup and just get main reg and one secondary. He then responds “be a internet diver! I don't want to get involved in this go your own way”. Whoaa what just happened, lest than 10 minutes from a pleasant call from him getting my card # to this!

Remember that when you deal with a person, you often inadvertently 'walk in on' whatever backstory/personal drama they've had going on, that you know nothing of. They may react to you based on that. My speculation:

1.) He's frustrated with the difficult competitive climate for retail LDS's & losing business to online vendors.

2.) He could be frustrated with people coming in with hard-to-meet demands for product he has a hard time providing, based on what they read on the internet, and he may often believe that the underlying logic is weak or even silly.

3.) So you make a demand that seems reasonable to you, but silly to him, and when he perceives difficulty meeting it, you tries to get you to make what he sees as a trivial compromise, and you balk at that since it runs afoul of how you believe things are supposed to be. This is the 1st time this has happened to you, but may be the latest in a series of times it has happened to him.

4.) He's already invested some time and effort in this, but doesn't think he's going to be able to reasonably get you what you want, and that you are being rigid and so will probably buy from an online vendor anyway, wasting his time and dashing his hopes of some profit.

5.) So he gets frustrated, angry and takes his snit out on you a bit. Makes sense from his perspective (that does not mean I think it was right, just somewhat understandable), but a rude surprise for you.

As I said, speculation on my part. But you seemed to be trying to make some sense of how he treated you, and I thought this might help.

Richard.