How did the first scuba divers fin swim?

[shake-and-bake]

This book is a great read and an excellent resource on the history of diving: Amazon.com: Neutral Buoyancy: Adventures in a Liquid World: Tim Ecott: Books

 

[DennisS]

This query arose from current edits to the Wikipedia page "Frogman"
Frogman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It seems that breathing set swim diving (= scuba diving), started in Italy in the 1930's.

I always assumed that finned scuba divers from the beginning swam in the familiar way like the legs of the crawl stroke.

But this new Wikipedia editor claims that the first between-the-wars swimfin swimmers swam like frogs, or like the legs of the breast stroke ("frog kick"), "whence the name "uomini rana" (Italian) = "frogmen"", and that crawl-stroke-like fin swimming came later.

Please, who is right?

I always thought they were called frogmen because of the "frog feet" they wore, not the style of kicking they used


1951 - An Expert Diver
"Professor Hiatt and I wore face masks and the Fisheries Director, Vernon Brock, who ordinarily wore strong glasses, had special underwater goggles with ground lenses. Mr. Brock also wore frog's feet and had a spear.

 

[Brendon]

I posted nothing wrong. I simply made the comment that to most divers today scuba means the common open circuit demand system and it was invented by Cousteau in the 1940.
There were many attempts to develop a self contained devise, most were either unsuccessful or impractical because of a limited air supply until Cousteau invented the demand regulator. All early rebreathers were pure oxygen units hence depth was limited to less than 30 feet.
If you read my post the first line says "there were no scuba divers as we know them today". Beside most early attempts at self contained diving didn't involve swimming, just walking along the bottom so it doesn't pertain to the OP question question about kicking styles..
Chronology of the Recreational Diving Industry

Wether you are swimming or walking on bottom you are diving. My comments were a rebuttal to your comments about diving history. Which is still wrong. Cousteau did not invent the demand regulator... Its was first invented in 1838 by... Can you answer that question? I'll give you clue, Stored compressed air was not readily available so he used a balloon. I wonder where Cousteau got his idea from, not to take away any credit because he did take it to the next level. I think you need to brush up on your history before you comment on it...

 

[knowone]

It was me, Emile and the Single Hose man Ted Eldred, that brought it to the masses
and around the mid seventies I also tied my jacket around my waist at fifteen years.

Writing my own history by word of mouth, centricity and kenesis.


Where's this bit in your link, Oops? Mr History


Ted Eldred - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The PORPOISE lives

The Fin and Glide is the most efficient finning style but not suitable for all condirions

 

[Teamcasa]

This query arose from current edits to the Wikipedia page "Frogman"
Frogman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It seems that breathing set swim diving (= scuba diving), started in Italy in the 1930's.

I always assumed that finned scuba divers from the beginning swam in the familiar way like the legs of the crawl stroke.

But this new Wikipedia editor claims that the first between-the-wars swimfin swimmers swam like frogs, or like the legs of the breast stroke ("frog kick"), "whence the name "uomini rana" (Italian) = "frogmen"", and that crawl-stroke-like fin swimming came later.

Please, who is right?

I would think that the "frog" comment came as a result of the fin. It was large, fanned out on on your feet - like a frogs, not the kick.

The traditional frog kick, like in competitive swimming simply would not work to well unless the fin surface was 90deg from the bottom of your foot. Even the kick that many divers call a frog kick was designed not to stir up the silt on the bottom, as it is not all that efficient as compared to a flutter, modified or otherwise.

 

[Brendon]

It was me, Emile and the Single Hose man Ted Eldred, that brought it to the masses
and around the mid seventies I also tied my jacket around my waist at fifteen years.

Writing my own history by word of mouth, centricity and kenesis.


Where's this bit in your link, Oops? Mr History


It exists

Yes I left Eldred out... I wasnt writing a book. Though He does deserve recognition.
I stopped as you can see at 1933. With that said he did not invent the rebreather just made his own version. The single hose regulator also was another improvement on a concept already designed in the past collecting dust... You must give credit to those who originally designed the concept and created a working model as the true inventor. If one makes dramatic improvements on the idea then they would be considered one of the poineers in developing the product. Not the inventor.

 

[Brendon]

Sorry to the OP for highjacking your thread.

 

[Gilldiver]

Wether you are swimming or walking on bottom you are diving. My comments were a rebuttal to your comments about diving history. Which is still wrong. Cousteau did not invent the demand regulator... Its was first invented in 1838 by... Can you answer that question? I'll give you clue, Stored compressed air was not readily available so he used a balloon. I wonder where Cousteau got his idea from, not to take away any credit because he did take it to the next level. I think you need to brush up on your history before you comment on it...

Then you have to separate the use of surface supplied diving from free swimming diving. The next separation is the practical demonstration of each. Diving bells have been used for centuries, if not millenniums, but for the most part were not practical.

There were attempts to make surface supplied diving practical, not the least of which was the use of barrels to bring down fresh air to a diving bell, but is was not till Charles Dean develop his hard hat rig and demonstrated it in 1834 on the wreck of the Royal George that it became practical. This is the same with Cousteau, there were many impractical free swimming rigs and rebreathers modified from mine safety and fire fighting O2 equipment, but it was not till Cousteau and Gagnan worked together that a practical free swimming SCUBA system that incorporated all required functions was designed and developed.

 

[Brendon]

Then you have to separate the use of surface supplied diving from free swimming diving. The next separation is the practical demonstration of each. Diving bells have been used for centuries, if not millenniums, but for the most part were not practical.

There were attempts to make surface supplied diving practical, not the least of which was the use of barrels to bring down fresh air to a diving bell, but is was not till Charles Dean develop his hard hat rig and demonstrated it in 1834 on the wreck of the Royal George that it became practical. This is the same with Cousteau, there were many impractical free swimming rigs and rebreathers modified from mine safety and fire fighting O2 equipment, but it was not till Cousteau and Gagnan worked together that a practical free swimming SCUBA system that incorporated all required functions was designed and developed.

Practical, is as practical as can be given the knowledge and material available at the time of the invention. They were all pioneering not perfecting. We still don't see perfection today in diving... All things today are practical given the circumstances (related to diving). Just because Yves Le Prieur's system was free flow doesn't mean it wasn't practical for all the stuff he did with it U/W. Like, Using this system to film underwater and give diving exhibitions. In 1935 he and film maker Jean Painleve opened the scuba diving Club des Sous I'Eau in Paris. They gave a Grand Gala in 1936 featuring 33 club members diving, seven of who were women and one who was a 5 year old girl. Id say his system was profoundly practical for that year...

But your right we would need to separate the use of surface supplied diving from free swimming diving. When discussing what was mentioned earlier...

Over all I believe you and your statement, its just twisted a bit for me. To say it wasnt practical just isnt true, unless we compare it to todays standard then you of course would be correct. The past diving systems pre 1992?? are definitely not practical for use today unless doing it for some novelty... Not including Tanks..

Im sure that last bit may piss some vintage divers off, Thats just my opinion. Im sorry if it offends anyone...

 

[Gilldiver]

The past diving systems pre 1992?? are definitely not practical for use today unless doing it for some novelty... Not including Tanks..

I’m wondering why you chose to use 1992 as some type of break or tipping point. Is it the introduction of mix into the sport diving world, cause it was 92/93 that we started diving 25-35% He mixes on air tables, or, is it some item or techniques coming out of the Florida caves that makes your date important to you?

Having lived through the time, the open circuit gear hasn’t changed much at all. What has changed is the use of computers as in dive computers or computer derived tables. Techniques have advanced quite a bit, but I think the Billy Dean of 1992 would still fair well against any “Tech” divers of today and I would say that the divers of the Wahoo and Seeker could match just about any diver today in the 100-200 foot range. Deeper than that and mix is just too much of an advantage and below 250 the complexities of open circuit make the dives impractical for all but the larger teams and the modern rebreather comes into its own.