How do you control ascent with a breathable power inflator?

Discussion in 'New Divers and Those Considering Diving' started by OyGevalt, Mar 11, 2012.

  1. OyGevalt

    OyGevalt Angel Fish

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    Hello All,

    I am a newly certified diver and just purchased my first basic set of dive gear. Instead of an octopus, my BCD has a breathable gemini power inflator. My question is: If a situation occurs in which I find myself breathing off of my power inflator, how can I use it to control ascent? During training, we were taught to hold it above our heads and either inflate or deflate as needed, but this seems hard to do if it is in ones mouth.

    Also, if I do need to put any air into my BCD can I take a breath at the same time?

    Thanks ahead of time for responses!
     
  2. DivemasterDennis

    DivemasterDennis ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

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    All of these things are possible without contortion. All you need to do is familiarize yourself with your new equipment. It is unlikely you will be breathing off your alternate air source low pressure inflator unless you are sharing air with another to whom you have donated your primary. In such an event, you will have likely dumped all you bcd air ( assuming you are not overweighted) prior to commencing you ascent. If not, you can still add/vent air while using the alternate air source. Practice in the pool or even in your living room. Ask you LDS, if you purchased it from them as opposed to online, to give you an orientation. You will do just fine.
    DivemasterDennis
     
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  3. rhwestfall

    rhwestfall Surface Interval Member

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    yep - practice, practice, and practice. Just curious, does your BC have a "pull-to-dump"? As DD said, you should discuss it with your retailer and/or the person who certified you. You may catch a bunch of flack from some here about this type of system, but this is a fairly tried and reliable system. It is different from a "conventional" octo system. It is important to discuss the donation scenario pre-dive with your buddy as their gear and training may be different.....
     
  4. elan

    elan DIR Practitioner

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    There should also be another dump valve or two on the shoulder or on the butt. You can use those to dump
     
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  5. dumpsterDiver

    dumpsterDiver Scuba Instructor

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    Where in the world do you come up with this stuffffffff????? You dump all the air from the BC, before an ascent??

    You are unlikely to ever use the alternate inflator/reg unless you are sharing air with another diver???

    The most common scuba failure is a freeflow. Many divers will choose NOT to breath from the free flowing reg and use an alternative reg.

    As for the OP's original question, he needs to play with this gear in the pool. There is no way he will be confident using this gear in a real emergency based on some assurances from people on the internet. Yes you can dump air and breath, some people will want to remove the device from their mouth. Some people will say to use an alternative dump valve. Whatever method(s) are used, the diver needs to figure it out and practice it a bunch until it is second nature to them.. or they will be a hazard to themselves and others if they do not have the skills to operate their equipment.

    Once he has it down in the pool, then it is not that big of a deal to practice ascent using the alternative reg for normal dives.. Just practice it a little on real dives and it will not be hard.
     
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  6. sdiver68

    sdiver68 Nassau Grouper

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    Just pull on the inflator hose, use the shoulder dump, assuming your BCD has 1. I use my shoulder dump almost exclusively, and I have an Octo but about to have an SS1.
     
  7. OyGevalt

    OyGevalt Angel Fish

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    Thanks for the feedback everyone! :)

    Yes, it does have a dump valve.

    I'm heading to my LDS next Saturday to practice in the pool (I need to pick up a new mask anyway. Mine is too high volume and I had a lot of trouble clearing it on my first dive trip)
     
  8. dumpsterDiver

    dumpsterDiver Scuba Instructor

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    That is sorta the problem, unless you have a neck that extends 12 inches at will, it is impossible (I think anyway) to have the device in your mouth and simultaneously utilize the pull dump device that is associated with the corregated hose. To use the pull dump on the inflater the device must be removed from the mouth.
     
  9. rhwestfall

    rhwestfall Surface Interval Member

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    interestingly enough, DD, I have been able to hold the unit in my mouth and, by pushing away from me in the "loop/arc" formed, I can trigger the dump. I do hear some ptd's are "stiffer", and this may not be possible (I have had success with DACOR and DUI models).

    I guess with the SP, it is all part of the system - the BC also has an independent PTD on the opposite shoulder (Classic series).

    Not sure how his products/brands are configured, so for him it may be quite different.

    In summary, yep, work it out with your instructor/LDS. And again, practice, practice, practice...
     
  10. Bob DBF

    Bob DBF Loggerhead Turtle

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    The pull dump on my old BC with a Oceanic version of "air 2" has a a two peice hose with a hard plastic connector between them. A pull on the connector dumps the air leaving the reg in your mouth.

    I've been thinking about moving it over to my BP/W since it worked well for me over the years on the jacket. I'd have done it by now but it will take some re-engineering to refit the wing.


    Bob
    ------------------------------------------
    I may be old, but I’m not dead yet.
     
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  11. dumpsterDiver

    dumpsterDiver Scuba Instructor

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    I would assume that would tend to yank the thing out of your mouth too, right? Maybe I need to try it...? I would just take it out of my mouth and dump I think.
     
  12. rhwestfall

    rhwestfall Surface Interval Member

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  13. rhwestfall

    rhwestfall Surface Interval Member

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    depends on how "stiff" of a dump valve it is..... and also, it depends on how appropriately sized (length) the inner pull cable is...
     
  14. rhwestfall

    rhwestfall Surface Interval Member

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    as usual - there are a bunch of options, and use what works best for you...
     
  15. sdiver68

    sdiver68 Nassau Grouper

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    Since I've been thinking about the SS1 for awhile, I practiced last time out keeping the inflator in my mouth and dumping air. If anything, pulling the dump pushed the inflator into my mouth more.

    Anyway, different configs and practice, practice, practice... The reason I went to shoulder dump is the traditional method did not work very well with my Oceanic Islander back-mount travel/minimalist BCD. My instructor told me to use the shoulder dump and it works great in combination with the lower dump when I'm not heads up.
     
  16. DivemasterDennis

    DivemasterDennis ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

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    Just a quick note to "dumpster diver" on how I "come up with stuff." My comments on this and other threads are based upon my experience and observing experiences of others for many years. I am rarely dogmatic in my posts because I understand that others have experiences different from mine. I am, however, always trying to be positive and encourage other divers, knowing that mine will not be the only contribution to the discussion. I think the comments I have made on this post, are, incidentally, accurate. And it is assuring that as far as suggestions to the poster, we are in fundamental agreement.
    DivemasterDennis
     
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  17. Jim Lapenta

    Jim Lapenta Tech Diver

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    While I strongly discourage students from choosing this type of set up in favor of a conventional or bungeed octo I will train someone who insists on getting one. But my feeling is if a shop is going to sell you this they should provide FREE training on it's use or not install it on the BC. I also do not allow it's use in my AOW class as it presents unnecessary difficulties in some of the skills I require and contradicts my lesson in choosing the most optimal gear configuration. Plus it adds unnecessary expense to the set up with no real benefit.
     
  18. g1138

    g1138 NAUI Instructor

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    To quickly answer one question, yes you can breath off your Gemini while inflating.

    You should refer to a post I made regarding dumping air while on your Air 2.
    http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ba...ng-your-line-altair-inflator-note-divers.html

    I'd also like to add that in order to orally inflate with your Air 2 you'll need to depress the dump button fully. If it is pressed any less it will only allow you to dump air, and not add air orally. This can come in handy on ascents though. It means you can keep your mouth on your Air 2 while exhaling so you don't inhale any BC air, but at the same time you won't be inadvertently adding air to your BC while exhaling.
     
  19. flots am

    flots am Great White

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    Even though you may not like them, use of a combination inflator/second stage isn't rocket science and no special training or contortions are needed.

    To add air to the BC you press the small button.

    To dump air you press the big button.

    None of this changes at all, regardless of whether you're breathing off it or not.

    There's no reason to overly complicate things. Also, it doesn't add "unnecessary expense" and in fact, priced almost identically to a seperate second stage and inflator.

    flots
     
  20. Jim Lapenta

    Jim Lapenta Tech Diver

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    Disagree with the cost statement, all bc's come with an inflator, a second stage and hose can be had for as little as 75.00 for a good one. 110 or so for a really good one. How much is an atomic or scubapro air 2 device. And is it as streamlined or does it hang down a bit? And they are not all the same. Had a scubapro and an aqualung model in my rescue class. They did not operate the same, buttons were not in the same location, and they were more problems than they were worth IMO for the people trying to "rescue" the divers wearing them. Both of the divers planned on getting rid of them after the class in favor of standard octo set ups. Part of the rescue class I teach looks at configuring your gear for self and buddy rescue. Lowvis found out a few things about his tech set up that got him thinking. Other divers saw the importance of keeping things as simple as possible. Especially if it was their life on the line. Something that is not standardized and not taught to every diver how to deal with is not an optimal choice in equipment.

    Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk
     

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