How do YOU set WB? Manually/postprocess

[Shasta_man]

Looking at buying a new video camera and housing. Considering a 3CCD camera.

Question:

How do you set WB in your videos?

You can either have a camera and housing which enables setting WB on the fly, or you do it through post processing when editing.

Of course, setting it manually costs more.

Setting manually, I see Sony PC1000 being the cheapest up to the Panasonic GS400.

Doing it through post processing means cheaper housing but do you get the same quality? Can you shoot your white slate enough to handle setting white balance in your clips that you keep? Since it is a little difficult to tell underwater, can you set manual white balance enough underwater to make "adjustment free" video for editing? Since you change depth underwater over time, is manual WB really practical, or do you end up with needing to correct WB anyway?

I guess it boils down to whether manual WB is worth the extra cost?

 

[shadowr69]

I'm now going to do it manually, but before it was with the filter alone. never could correct it in post.

I'll be doing some testing with it to see what depth affects it. From what I understand filters are best used in the 30-80 ft range. Above that, you don't really need them, but I think thats only in clear tropical water. In the Waters off so cal, I've used it to about 10 feet. after that the colors would be too pink.

-M

 

[shroy002]

From my understanding you can "manually white balance" just about any camera at any depth by turning it off an on--this will activate the auto white balance feature if it is set that way (just aim it at the sand after turning it on). I may be wrong but this is generally same thing that manually white balancing through the housing accomplishes. Not the most elegant way to do it but some say it does the job just fine.

I think that overall for best affect (again personal taste) it is easy enough to color correct in post processing.

Just my two cents worth--manual white balance gets a lot play on the board and some swear by it.

Steve

Looking at buying a new video camera and housing. Considering a 3CCD camera.

Question:

How do you set WB in your videos?

You can either have a camera and housing which enables setting WB on the fly, or you do it through post processing when editing.

Of course, setting it manually costs more.

Setting manually, I see Sony PC1000 being the cheapest up to the Panasonic GS400.

Doing it through post processing means cheaper housing but do you get the same quality? Can you shoot your white slate enough to handle setting white balance in your clips that you keep? Since it is a little difficult to tell underwater, can you set manual white balance enough underwater to make "adjustment free" video for editing? Since you change depth underwater over time, is manual WB really practical, or do you end up with needing to correct WB anyway?

I guess it boils down to whether manual WB is worth the extra cost?

 

[shadowr69]

interesting, I had read that you can white balance off the sand, I may have to try that with the still just to see the effect and compare it to a white board....

Thanks for the tip!!

Mark

 

[ronrosa]

interesting, I had read that you can white balance off the sand, I may have to try that with the still just to see the effect and compare it to a white board....

Thanks for the tip!!

Mark

I use the sand to white balance. I find it easier than carrying/using a slate and have gotten good results.

 

[Mike Veitch]

I don't have enough sand to WB so i use a slate. I do it 20 or 30 times a dive. Every time i change depth, everytime i face toward or away from the sun, if i am shooting up or down. You can even leave your red filter on on the boat and WB up there no problems. Leave the red filter on at 5ft or 1 ft, no problems, just WB. It only takes a sec....

And so much easier than trying to do it in post, what a pain in the butt that is.

 

[Shasta_man]

Mike,

Understood about manual WB being a preference but let me expand a little on your answer to understand where the problem is.

My belief is I can perform a white balance change in Premiere Pro by indicating what is white in a clip and the filter provides the correction based on that. Lacking any experience in actually doing so yet, that would seem to be relatively straight forward. No?

Further, since you're interrupting the video with the slate, this naturally forms clips which could then apply the procedure above in post processing.

So where is the problem? Is correct correction not that simple, or ?? Are you using automated filters like that or ?? What software are you using?

Additionally, are you saying you can even set the WB on the boat with the red filter on? And that you use the red filter on near the surface? The times I used the red filter I merely got video of hell (red) while shallow. I guess there is already loss of color immediately in the water, so that makes sense <<thinking aloud>>

I don't have enough sand to WB so i use a slate. I do it 20 or 30 times a dive. Every time i change depth, everytime i face toward or away from the sun, if i am shooting up or down. You can even leave your red filter on on the boat and WB up there no problems. Leave the red filter on at 5ft or 1 ft, no problems, just WB. It only takes a sec....

And so much easier than trying to do it in post, what a pain in the butt that is.

 

[Mike Veitch]

Hi Shasta,

Theoretically yes you can do it in Post. However, you will not get the same quality as doing it in real life. The textures, tones, colours etc will all suffer somewhat from digital manipulation. If you have a clip or two where the colour doesn't work out then you will have a tough time getting it to match the rest of the clips where it was done in water.
As far as i know yes you can do what you are talking about in Premiere but to be honest with you i haven't looked...
I do have Premiere Pro but i do most of my work in Pinnacle Studio Plus. Basically i go out and shoot two or three dives in the morning of my guests and have the video finished and burned on dvd by that evening. I find Studio to be pretty painless and very easy for that sort of editing. If i was looking at doing something a little more serious (commercial) then i go to the Premiere but i admit my Premiere is very rusty as i hardly use it...
The fact i have to produce so many videos so quickly really leads me to avoid as much post work as possible. I believe much more accurate colours are produced doing it in camera anyway. In fact i have never colour corrected in post as i am more than happy with the colours produced in camera.

I don't interrupt the video with the slate actually. What i do is i make sure that i WB before i hit record. Obviously lighting situations change at different depths, clouds, direction sun is coming from etc. Therefore, everytime i want to record i make sure i hit the WB. It is quite easy on my TRV 950 as all i do is hold the slate in front of the lens (which i keep attached to the housing on a retractable cord) Then just flip the lever and its done. The most important thing to do is point the camera in the direction you are shooting. If you do that then the colour should be very good.

For shallow water, on the boat, on land etc as long at the camera has a manual WB (not the presets) then yes you won't get the reds. Very easy to test if you have a friend who owns a manual WB camera at the moment.

Just cover the lens with a red filter while you are standing on land and point it at a white wall, it will look red...hit the WB switch and voila the wall is now white.



Going back to your original post i see you are concerned with price for manual WB.
I am not sure i understand. Are you concerned the switch on the housing is more expensive or are you concerned about the price diff between cameras that do have and don't have WB?

You might look into trying to find a used Sony TRV 950 somewhere as this is a fantastic camera and lots of housings were offered.

Mike,

Understood about manual WB being a preference but let me expand a little on your answer to understand where the problem is.

My belief is I can perform a white balance change in Premiere Pro by indicating what is white in a clip and the filter provides the correction based on that. Lacking any experience in actually doing so yet, that would seem to be relatively straight forward. No?

Further, since you're interrupting the video with the slate, this naturally forms clips which could then apply the procedure above in post processing.

So where is the problem? Is correct correction not that simple, or ?? Are you using automated filters like that or ?? What software are you using?

Additionally, are you saying you can even set the WB on the boat with the red filter on? And that you use the red filter on near the surface? The times I used the red filter I merely got video of hell (red) while shallow. I guess there is already loss of color immediately in the water, so that makes sense <<thinking aloud>>

 

[Shasta_man]

Thanks for the swift response.

OK, I can gauge your comments now. I could imagine that everything would be better by adjusting it on the fly rather than in post. It would be interesting to do a side by side comparison of setting it on the fly as opposed to in post. The problem with post appears to be telling when to re-adjust as depth changes. Unfortunately you've introduced another variable into the equation which I don't have: you get paid for it! Investing in the camera/housing with manual WB makes total sense to reduce your time in post so you can get it done in a timely manner.

It's all a matter of money of course. My conundrum is this:

I'm concerned about long life of the camera and taking advantage of new technology so I'd rather go new. Yes, this increases cost.

My choices, all 3CCD, appear to be:

Panasonic GS400 with Ocean Images housing: camera = $1100; housing $1850 = $2950
great camera, manual WB, easy to use, everything, etc questionable long life support

Panasonic GS250 with Ocean Images housing: camera = $700, housing = $1295 = $2000 great camera but no manual WB support in the housing requiring post WB

Sony PC1000 in either Ikelite or Ocean Images housing: camera = $950, housing $830 or more features on OI for $1325 = $2275; good camera, should be well supported with possible housing upgrade path; manual WB available though not as easy to set; some other minor potential issues.

Frame all this by balancing usage/cost/quality. I'm an infrequent diver, mostly on vacation . THe camera would be used reasonably outside the housing, so there is in value there.

Comes to this: I'd go with the GS250 depending on the WB post processing result. OTherwise, I'm inclined to go with the Sony PC1000.

Sorry for the monster post.

Hmmm....

Hi Shasta,

Theoretically yes you can do it in Post. However, you will not get the same quality as doing it in real life. The textures, tones, colours etc will all suffer somewhat from digital manipulation. If you have a clip or two where the colour doesn't work out then you will have a tough time getting it to match the rest of the clips where it was done in water.
As far as i know yes you can do what you are talking about in Premiere but to be honest with you i haven't looked...
I do have Premiere Pro but i do most of my work in Pinnacle Studio Plus. Basically i go out and shoot two or three dives in the morning of my guests and have the video finished and burned on dvd by that evening. I find Studio to be pretty painless and very easy for that sort of editing. If i was looking at doing something a little more serious (commercial) then i go to the Premiere but i admit my Premiere is very rusty as i hardly use it...
The fact i have to produce so many videos so quickly really leads me to avoid as much post work as possible. I believe much more accurate colours are produced doing it in camera anyway. In fact i have never colour corrected in post as i am more than happy with the colours produced in camera.

I don't interrupt the video with the slate actually. What i do is i make sure that i WB before i hit record. Obviously lighting situations change at different depths, clouds, direction sun is coming from etc. Therefore, everytime i want to record i make sure i hit the WB. It is quite easy on my TRV 950 as all i do is hold the slate in front of the lens (which i keep attached to the housing on a retractable cord) Then just flip the lever and its done. The most important thing to do is point the camera in the direction you are shooting. If you do that then the colour should be very good.

For shallow water, on the boat, on land etc as long at the camera has a manual WB (not the presets) then yes you won't get the reds. Very easy to test if you have a friend who owns a manual WB camera at the moment.

Just cover the lens with a red filter while you are standing on land and point it at a white wall, it will look red...hit the WB switch and voila the wall is now white.



Going back to your original post i see you are concerned with price for manual WB.
I am not sure i understand. Are you concerned the switch on the housing is more expensive or are you concerned about the price diff between cameras that do have and don't have WB?

You might look into trying to find a used Sony TRV 950 somewhere as this is a fantastic camera and lots of housings were offered.