How often does it really happen?

[Lorenzoid]

She was buddy diving, not solo diving.

I don't want to belabor it--I'm thinking I should never have brought up a topic that was discussed so extensively--but if I recall correctly there was no buddy by her side at the time of the incident. I haven't read the thread in months, but if I'm not mistaken, it was effectively a solo at that point in the dive. Anyway, all I meant to inject in this discussion by bringing up that incident is that even divers with hundreds or thousands of dives and lots of (non-solo) training can trip up if they're alone and let themselves get complacent. The OP has a good bit of experience and training, but it might be a mistake for him to believe he has all his bases covered for solo diving based just on that and having taken what he believes are the "necessary precautions, i.e.,: pony bottle, backup dive knife, leaving my non diving spouse on the boat to watch my bubbles, etc." Just the original question about regulator failure suggests he might have his focus on the wrong things.

 

[flots am]

Actually it is relevant. If one can fail, so can two, so should we carry 3? Or 4 alternate air sources?

The probability of simultaneous failures on two completely separate air sources is acceptably small for most open water divers.

Your mileage may vary.

The rest of the items you listed are completely optional and no backup is necessary on an OW dive, although you may make different choices.

The thing about solo is that "It's your life". If you die, you die, so you need to decide what an acceptable risk is and plan your dive and your equipment appropriately.

but for a recreational dive, alternate air source (IMHO) is just adding task loading and extra gear unnecessarily.

Although no-deco dives carry a relatively low risk of DCS or embolism with a properly done OOA ascent, it's still safer if you can switch to an alternate air source instead of rocketing to the surface.

There is also the possibility that you might need a minute or two before ascending, if for example, you lose buoyancy or get trapped in or by something or find that you've screwed up in some manner, like taking a thick wetsuit and heavy tanks on a deep dive, redundant air will keep you alive long enough to give you a chance to sort things out.

However, again, it's your life and your call. There are no SCUBA Police (except in France and Quebec, apparently) and you can dive with whatever equipment and methods you choose.

flots.

 

[DaleC]

--but if I recall correctly there was no buddy by her side at the time of the incident. I haven't read the thread in months, but if I'm not mistaken, it was effectively a solo at that point in the dive.

If you leave a buddy it isn't really a solo dive. It's a failed buddy plan. One intended to have a partner but at some point doesn't (have one). There goes 1/2 your assumed resources. In Q's case, no air, no assistance.

Solo diving should be an intentional act, with a full understanding and acceptance of meeting conditions without aid. This alters the risks one is willing to accept, how one will meet those risks, and the equipment and skills one needs to possess.

Btw: Nothing wrong with bringing the point up. It's a good one that I think she would want people to examine and learn from.

 

[tech_diver]

I realized something long before solo diving ever started gaining any acceptability.

As a working dive master, I was less than solo diving. Not only did I have no buddy, I had a group of strangers around me, anyone of which could have a freak-out, failure or medical issue that could destroy them, me and my divemaster career at anytime. I had to be equipped and ready to save myself and someone else. I got so use to wearing a 30 cft pony that I now don't even notice a little 13 cft pony that I wear for solo sport diving.

After being a divemaster, solo diving feels much safer and more relaxing.

 

[John_B]

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/advanced-scuba-discussions/485593-no-really;-does-ever-happen.html

 

[Bob DBF]

I realized something long before solo diving ever started gaining any acceptability.

Actually, although buddy diving has been the training model and preferred recommended style of diving, from my experience, the unacceptability and vehemence in denouncing solo diving is recent and dependent on locality. My first dive in '63 was solo, and the only time I was not solo was when practicing buddy breathing. Later I actually found and dove with buddies, but solo was acceptable as well. I have been diving on the north coast of CA since the late '70's, with trips to SoCal, and solo diving has just been treated as just another diving preference.

It seems to me that the unacceptability of solo diving goes hand in hand with the reduction of time devoted to OW training. It is another platitude like the recommended depth and conditions limits for OW rather than take the time to train the student to make good choices. It is easier and faster for the instructor to make an unbreakable rule, which then gets repeated as gospel.




Bob
---------------------------------
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.

 

[Hank49]

The only reg "failure" I experienced was right after having it serviced which wasn't a reg fault. Probably more a drunk technician fault. He left a screw loose. I'd have to open the reg….it's been about 15 years….to identify the loose screw that was then problem, but true to most claims, the failure resulted in free flow out of the first stage. Not full on low pressure hose but loft of bubbles. I had plenty of time to surface safely.

 

[markmud]

The biggest problem is that a real solo card certifies you to dive solo, while the other one doesn't.

This isn't an issue unless you're diving somewhere that checks such things, but if you're going to pay the money and take the class, you might as well get the card.

flots.

Hey Flots,

I have a PADI Solo Cert. Yeah, I know it says "Self Reliant Diver." A somewhat common response that I receive when I use that card while signing the dive waiver has been: "Hey, he is a Solo diver, don't buddy him with anyone." Even on dives when I wanted to meet people and buddy-up.

My instructor is qualified to give both courses, SDI and PADI. He explained that they were the same course except for the surface swim requirement. We did the PADI course. I don't remember why. I like SDI better. David Sipperly, Brett Gilliam, and Mitch Skaggs rock. Where would diving be without people like them.

Tursiops rebuttal to "Self-Reliant" PADI bashing is right on (post #15, also read post #8; Devon Diver). Again, I don't belong to the PADI love society. But the truth is the truth.

markm

---------- Post added June 20th, 2014 at 06:58 PM ----------

I realized something long before solo diving ever started gaining any acceptability.

As a working dive master, I was less than solo diving. Not only did I have no buddy, I had a group of strangers around me, anyone of which could have a freak-out, failure or medical issue that could destroy them, me and my divemaster career at anytime. I had to be equipped and ready to save myself and someone else. I got so use to wearing a 30 cft pony that I now don't even notice a little 13 cft pony that I wear for solo sport diving.

After being a divemaster, solo diving feels much safer and more relaxing.

Hey tech diver,

I am not an instructor nor a DM. But I have dived with people like this:

"The dependent diver
This is the diver who depends on the buddy for vital information during the dive. Such divers are all too common. The dependent diver lets the buddy do the navigating, or keep an eye on the depth, or determine the safety stop, or even set his gear up for him. When he gets separated from his buddy, he is unable to cope, especially if he is afraid of being alone. The dependent diver is a direct consequence of the buddy system, and without it he would not exist. (Bob Halstead, from and old article)

Sometimes I feel safer Solo than with a "dependent diver."

markm

---------- Post added June 20th, 2014 at 07:11 PM ----------

Quote from Ranger233:
"What I am wanting to know is how often has/does a regulator actually fail? An out of air situation is preventable. I'm talking a situation where you have plenty of air in your tank and you simply can not breathe off your reg. Also to expand on this, how many of these regs were actually maintained properly?"

=Ranger233;7150582]Ok I've got a question for y'all.

Hey Ranger,

I have spent a large portion of my life on the ocean. I don't mean a few hours operating a boat for a quick dive trip or fishing the cove down the coast. I mean blue water voyages.

Stuff happens on the ocean. I dive with redundancy because I know that my reg system may fail. Every other piece of machinery has failed me while on the ocean. Including my first stage.

Ponies are easy to rig and not that expensive. While diving, I don't know the pony is even there--it is not a bother.

markm