how to handle panicky divers in group

[Redshift]

As for the harassment during training such has been described here, to my knowledge that has never been a standard part of any agency training. A history of NAUI written by Al Tillman, NAUI instructor #1, describes the first true training session in Houston in 1960 during which they were surprised to see instructors doing this. His conclusion suggests that he believed that the people doing the harassment were more motivated by the fun they were having doing it than by a belief it was helping students.

My profession is educational theory, and I find these activities dubious at best in their educational value. I won't go into the details of why I don't see the value, but suffice it to say that whatever value it may have is overshadowed by the danger. Let's say you rip a student's mask off at 10 feet of depth in the pool and discover that, by golly, he did indeed panic and sprint to the surface while holding his breath. So, will you feel a great sense of satisfaction in your role as an instructor as you remove his corpse from the pool?

You may not have seen it directly in the standards, but there are agencies that have minimum standards (such as CMAS).

And I wouldn't call this harassment. Swimming along and get a mask pulled off is just something that will eventually happen while diving. It's not like the instructors are attacking a student. Isn't the purpose of training to teach and prepare the divers to deal with situations that may happen during a dive? There is a lot of teaching on sharing gas, controlled emergency ascent... things which derive from being OOG. Well, I have never been out of gas and have had my mask and reg kicked or pulled several times.

Is it better to remove all danger from a class, where the exercise is done at shallow depth and with an instructor right there prepared to intervene and then have that situation happen to the certified diver at 20m without anyone being able to help? Maybe in American instructor's eyes it's better since it didn't happen with them, they can't be sued. Still, injured or dead diver due to lack of training.

And of course these exercises don't come out of the blue and are not done in a 3-day course.

 

[PsyWulf]

I still have random instances of mild panic from time to time,you wouldn't know it looking at me,so panic itself can appear anytime. Identifying students that might need a bit more attention is really part of what you're taught in Rescue - identifying panic before it strikes

 

[Malpaso]

Identifying students that might need a bit more attention is really part of what you're taught in Rescue - identifying panic before it strikes

One of the simplest ways of identifying a potential issue with a student, or any diver for that matter, is a change in demeanor prior to the dive. For instance, someone who is usually very talkative who doesn't say a word, or the converse, someone who is usually very reserved being very chatty. Those are generally signs of nervousness, which is often a precursor to panic. This is a very basic yardstick, but one that anyone can use that hasn't gone through the whole Rescue class.

 

[Kharon]

Why I dive solo almost all the time. Diveing with "buddies" scares the crap out of me.

 

[kr2y5]

I personally know of several places in different states in the US, where this type of training continues.

I would be happy to pay for such training, would you please offer any pointers?

 

[rx7diver]

I would be happy to pay for such training, would you please offer any pointers?

kr2y5,

The programs I personally know about are university scuba courses (semester-long, for-credit, elective courses).

Safe Diving,

rx7diver

 

[ballastbelly]

some interesting philosophical points have come up here on if OW training should include harrasement:


-everyone has a panic point, which might vary from day to day
-pulling off masks/shutting off air during training can prepare you to remain calm during an emergency or if you are unlucky put you off diving
-harassement could lead to (fatal) accidents like lung expansion, even in shallow water

my argument wasnt to exlude diving to some sort of elite group, but to protect OW students from statistically the most dangerous thing that you
have a high probability of encountering during a OW dive, a panicking diver.

 

[rx7diver]

my argument wasnt to exlude diving to some sort of elite group, but to protect OW students from statistically the most dangerous thing that you
have a high probability of encountering during a OW dive, a panicking diver.

One approach is to minimize (as much as possible) the chance you will encounter a panicking diver (or become one, yourself). Arguably, if you dive only with divers who are certified after being thoroughly trained (using some of the old-school methods alluded to above), you will be going a long way toward doing this.

Also, a thorough open water training course will include some dive rescue basics, which include recognizing panic (or impending panic) and dealing with a panicking diver. My open water course spent some time on this. However, I gained additional knowledge and training and practice from my dive rescue course.

Safe Diving,

rx7diver

 

[doctormike]

I would be happy to pay for such training, would you please offer any pointers?

I paid for this kind of training, and it was great! Here's my writeup.

It looks like you are in the NY area - try Wayne at The Scuba Connection. He is in NJ, and also at Dutch Springs frequently...

 

[Malpaso]

Here's my writeup.

Link doesn't seem to be working