I got bent and went to the chamber, but was I really bent?

[padiscubapro]

14 dives in six days may be aggresive in cold water but this is warm water right, i do 14 dives in three days and probably 30 in six days (now thats agrressive). I think some people are reading too much into this, please correct me if im wrong. I guess you were maxing at 90 feet but if your comp was mainly green then you were away from the NDL's and moving up the reef during the dive. Maybe you werent as hydrated as you could have been and the lack of sleep would not help, but it does not sound like a schedule that could lead to DCS. It is an unexact science and i could be wrong, but i do not think your dive plan was excessive. Disorientation due to the baratrauma sounds a more likely scenario.

Possibly an undeserved hit but seems unlikely, hope it heals up soon and that you will feel comfortable to go diving again.

I agree 14 dives in 6 days isn't that bad.. on a take it easy trip I used to do 3 and sometimes 4 dives a day...On a heavy dive trips I'd pull 5 dives a day..
Nowadays I only average 2 or 3 dves a day but they are usually several hours long each..

I always make sure I am properly hydrated and have at least a 1 hr surface interval between each dive.. on deeper stuff I shoot for 2 hrs between dives..

 

[Snowbear]

...It is an unexact science...

Yup.
That's why I said what I did.
Why did I mention I thought the diving was aggressive? Well, any one thing is probably not a big deal, but when combined in a diver riding the bars of her computer, no matter how warm the water, the factors add up to aggressive diving (IMHO):

*computer (very liberal)
*mostly in the green.
*into the yellow twice but ascended a bit and it went down to "only" a dot in the yellow.
* We did loooong dives.
* I violated the ascent rate only twice
* surface intervals-about an hour to 90 minutes
* I should have drank more water.
* I stopped drinking water after my last dive and had my first alcoholic drink of the week.

We don't know what the time frame between the last dive and the first plane ride. We also don't know if the chamber ride relieved the symptoms. It doesn't seem likely this diver was bent, but it should also not automatically be ruled out.

That said, the point of my last post in response to wildcard was that I also didn't think this diver was having a heart attack

 

[pipedope]

Not crazy, not paranoid and if you talked yourself into thinking you had DCS then that is a GOOD THING.

MOST divers talk themselves into thinking they DON'T have DCS when they really do. The time they spend talking to themselves instead of getting treatment makes things much worse.

I am not a doctor and don't play one on TV but I was a commercial diver for many years and will give you my take on things from your post.

I suspect the ear barotrauma may have been caused (or made worse) by the ear infection and was probably not a result of particularly poor technique, other than continuing to dive with an ear problem. This is common especially when people have traveled long distances to dive in an exotic location.

Flying with ear trauma is only slightly better than flying with DCS. It IS going to hurt and MAY do more damage.
OTOH I understand the desire to get home and get treatment in a familar location with doctors you know.

I suspect that when the ear pain let up (during the flight) you then noticed the arm pain that was kept out of your awarness by the pain in your head. I think it was probably not DCS.
You did the right thing by going on O2 and calling DAN, and insisting that the Dr. and others call DAN.

The question of the chamber ride is still, "Did the pain in your arm go away while under pressure?"

What could you have done better?
Call DAN on the ear problems right at the begining. They could advise you and might have suggested treatment before flying. Heck, you might have gotten an extended vacation.

What to do now?
Learn the 5 minute neuro exam and practice it with your buddy before and after diving. With this exam a buddy would notice a significant problem in your arm even if you don't because of the ear pain.

Keep diving!
If you want to see how bad DCS can be and the diver still return to diving read the stories by Richard Pyle;
http://www.bishopmuseum.org/research/treks/palautz97/cmd.html
and
http://staff.washington.edu/parker/scuba/tech/bendstory2.htm

You also might want to investigate 'ear beer', that is ear drops that you use after a dive to prevent ear infections.

Have you watched my favorite ear video?
Go to;
http://faculty.washington.edu/ekay/index.html
and watch the streaming video,

Streaming Video Lecture
"The Diver's Ear - Under Pressure"
Scuba diving and snorkeling can be fun ways to explore the depths - especially if you can clear your ears as the pressure changes. In this video lecture Dr. Edmond Kay discusses techniques for preventing middle ear barotrauma. Learn what to do to equalize pressure in your ears, teach others proper techniques and learn the safest way to prevent "ear squeeze". This talk was recorded live in September, 2000 and is now available for Internet viewing over the University's video portal (broadband only).

 

[opiniongirl]

Hey Girl..

You got a lot of support here!!!

I think it's pretty hard to mentally create tinging and numbness, so I would imagine that you may have had a mild hit (I'm no doctor though), but I don't think it had anything to do with your ears popping.

Best thing is what you took from the experience, although perhaps it was scary, but assuming that it was DCS is a good thing.

I hope you feel better now - try and replace the fear with the knowledge that you recognized the situation and acted accordingly. Most divers with DCS tend to deny it, so relax in knowing that you were proactive.

Big hug, and hope you feel better!!!

 

[luvspoodles]

Thank you everyone for your responses. I put in another call to DAN and they said that it was probably DCS. I am still very dizzy and feel pain at different times all over, and the DAN person said that I may still feel the after effects for a few days, a few weeks, or a few months. After reading some of your remarks, especially the one (posted by snowbear I think) about the ear barotrauma making me feel dizzy and off balance, it makes me feel better. I will answer some questions you asked and I hope that I get them all:
-The pain was in my right arm.
-We did not stay deep for the whole dive.
-I actually wasn't in a cave-it was a swim through.
-The pain in my right arm did go away after the chamber ride, but I as so out of it that the pain may have been gone before the ride. I called my doctor and am waiting for him to call back so that I can ask him if I was in pain when I first went to the chamber. The hospital (which knew absolutely nothing about DCS ) put the intravenous thing right in the place that hurt so it was hard to tell.
-Now that I remember, I actually didn't violate the ascent rate. My computer beeped twice because it was set at 92 feet as my limit (for some reason it was still set at that for the nitrox-but no, the computer wasn't set for nitrox.)
-I did dive nitrox for about 3 of my dives but we stopped because it was expensive.
-I only drank 1 pina colada, 1 strawberry margarita, and 1 glass of wine after my dives were over for the week over a 2 day period.
Looking back, there are things that I would definitely change. If I ever dive again, I will follow these rules.
-I will stay more hydrated
-I will take a break mid-week
-Maybe I should look into a more conservative computer? (Thats IF I dive again)
-I will not dive until I have lost weight. I am about 40 pounds overweight ( a size 16) and I am not in shape. I have been telling myself that I need to change this, but now here is my incentive.

The sad part is that I knew all of these things. If I wasn't such a fool I would have done these things. This has been such a rotten experience that I don't know if it is worth it. Thank you to those of you who responded with stories of those who have dove again after getting hit. I can't tell you how much diving has meant to me...we even put off having kids for a while because we were enjoying ourselves so much with all of this diving. We were even saving up for drysuits in California...

Well, enough of my pity party. Anyway, thanks for the responses.

 

[luvspoodles]

Not crazy, not paranoid and if you talked yourself into thinking you had DCS then that is a GOOD THING.

MOST divers talk themselves into thinking they DON'T have DCS when they really do. The time they spend talking to themselves instead of getting treatment makes things much worse.

I am not a doctor and don't play one on TV but I was a commercial diver for many years and will give you my take on things from your post.

I suspect the ear barotrauma may have been caused (or made worse) by the ear infection and was probably not a result of particularly poor technique, other than continuing to dive with an ear problem. This is common especially when people have traveled long distances to dive in an exotic location.

Flying with ear trauma is only slightly better than flying with DCS. It IS going to hurt and MAY do more damage.
OTOH I understand the desire to get home and get treatment in a familar location with doctors you know.

I suspect that when the ear pain let up (during the flight) you then noticed the arm pain that was kept out of your awarness by the pain in your head. I think it was probably not DCS.
You did the right thing by going on O2 and calling DAN, and insisting that the Dr. and others call DAN.

The question of the chamber ride is still, "Did the pain in your arm go away while under pressure?"

What could you have done better?
Call DAN on the ear problems right at the begining. They could advise you and might have suggested treatment before flying. Heck, you might have gotten an extended vacation.

What to do now?
Learn the 5 minute neuro exam and practice it with your buddy before and after diving. With this exam a buddy would notice a significant problem in your arm even if you don't because of the ear pain.

Keep diving!
If you want to see how bad DCS can be and the diver still return to diving read the stories by Richard Pyle;
http://www.bishopmuseum.org/research/treks/palautz97/cmd.html
and
http://staff.washington.edu/parker/scuba/tech/bendstory2.htm

You also might want to investigate 'ear beer', that is ear drops that you use after a dive to prevent ear infections.

Have you watched my favorite ear video?
Go to;
http://faculty.washington.edu/ekay/index.html
and watch the streaming video,

Streaming Video Lecture
"The Diver's Ear - Under Pressure"
Scuba diving and snorkeling can be fun ways to explore the depths - especially if you can clear your ears as the pressure changes. In this video lecture Dr. Edmond Kay discusses techniques for preventing middle ear barotrauma. Learn what to do to equalize pressure in your ears, teach others proper techniques and learn the safest way to prevent "ear squeeze". This talk was recorded live in September, 2000 and is now available for Internet viewing over the University's video portal (broadband only).

Wow...these stories make my DCS seem so small!

 

[junglejim]

Hi luvspoodles,

I´m a chamber operator here in Utila.

The ear problems you describe sound like a bad ear infection causing other symptoms.

The symptoms you describe (pain in the elbow and tingling in the arm) are classic indications of DCS Type 1. Not neurological.

If you had come to the chamber in Utila and your symptoms did not respond to oxygen
you would have been given a US Navy Treatment Table 6. This is a 4 hour and 45 minute ride with alternating periods of breathing 100% oxygen with regular periods of breathing normal air.

It doesn´t sound to me like you did anything terribly wrong. It does sound like you might have been dehydrated. This makes DCS more likely.

Statistics suggest that long bottom times such as you describe increase your chances
of Type 1 DCS.

I really don´t think you should be terribly worried about any of this. Just be sure to take a little better care of your ears and drink LOTS of water next time.

tranquilo

Well, I have feared posting my story, but I know that I need to, because I am in need of some answers and I have always obtained such wonderful advice and answers here on the board. I've also had some rude answers, which is why I am hesitant to post this, so please don't post if you are going to be rude. Here goes:
My husband were diving for 6 days in Cozumel last week. We did 14 dives. Two dives a day and 2 night dives. On the day of our last dive my ears felt full of water but did not hurt I talked to some people and they said that it was probably swimmers ear, so I dove. After the dives, my ears felt sharp, intense pain. We were told to go and visit the best dive doctor on the island, so we did. He said that I had ear barotrauma from not equalizing properly. He gave me an ani-inflammatory and a fever-reducer/pain killer. He also said something very funny. He had a screensaver of the chamber on his computer and I said "I am glad I am not going there." He said "You dive-you eventuallly go to chamber. I no joke." (in his mexican accent it was hilarious! I didn't realize at the time what would happen to me. So anyway, the pain just gets worse and it feels like someone is knifing me in my ears, mostly my right one. We see another doctor and this doctor says that my barotrauma has now turned into an infection and is oozing yellow clear stuff. So he gives me some antibiotics. The pain gets so bad that we call the first doctor and he says to go get a better painkiller, so we go to the corner 7-11 type place and buy a better painkiller (according to the girl at the counter who also sells chips, donuts, cola...) So I take this and it is our day to finally fly home, hooray! Never have I so desperately wanted to leave a tropical island. We get on the plane and I feel okay mentally, but desperately tired and in horrific pain. I also had not slept a wink in the past 2 nights from the excruciating pain. Our first plane ride is okay, but my ears did hurt on the descent. We had a layover in Houston and we were considering taking me to the emergency room there, thinking they would admit me to the hospital right away due to the extreme pain, but I just wanted to get home and go to a hospital in my area. Boy I wish I would not have gotten on that plane...So we get on the next plane and we are about 2 hours into the ride and suddenly my right ear pops and I feel absolutely NO PAIN. Then I start to notice a dull pain in my arm, in the elbow joint. Then my arm starts to tingle. It is funny because my husband is watching a movie a couple of seats in front of me and I tell him that I think I have DCS, and that I must have had a air bubble in my ear that moved to my arm and he tells me to relax (He knows I'm a little bit of crazy). The next thing he sees is my breathing O2. You should have seen the look on his face! So I tell the stewardessess that I need to call DAN. My arm just felt not right. And I am totally dizzy. I am freaking out, not breathing heavily, but my pulse is very high. But no one will call DAN, they want to call their own paramedics. So the paramedics meet me at the airport and I tell them my symptoms, and they say that there is no way I could have DCS, I would be flailing about and almost dead. I said that is simply not true, but they would not believe me. So they take me to Kaiser Oakland, and they put the intravenous line right on the pain in my right arm, so now I no longer know if my arm still hurts or if it is just the nail sized needle in my arm. My husband tells the doctor to call DAN, she says "Well, I don't know anything about DCS, let me look it up on the computer." So she finally calls DAN, where they say that it is not nearological, but sets me up with a trip to the chamber doctor for 11 oclock the next day. It was currently about 12 at night. So I go to the doctor, and he says that it is probably not anything, but that I should do a short chamber ride (about 3 hours) anyway. So I do. The next day I don't want to go again, I hated it, and now I feel like I have invented the whole thing in my head. Another doctor says that is sounds like I did have DCS due to the pain and tingling in one arm. I said "But couldn't I have been hyperventilating?" He said that because it was just the one arm that it probably was. So I took another ride. So here I am now, depressed and feeling like my husband ought to drive me right over to the nuthouse. Maybe I got so freaked out about my ear popping and told myself that the bubble had moved (not possible I found out) that I imagined the DCS? And I was on about 6 different drugs at the time...maybe I went crazy? Maybe the barotrauma in my ears and the popping caused the extreme dizzyness? Now I feel like I should never dive again, and I am so sad, because diving is the one thing that has given me self-confidence over the last year and a half.
Anyway, I will give you some details that I know will be asked.
-We did no decompression diving. I have an Oceanic computer (very liberal) that put us mostly in the green. We went 2 dots into the yellow twice but ascended a bit and it went down to only a dot in the yellow. We did loooong dives. About an hour each time. The first dive would be about 80 to 90 feet and the second would be about 60 feet.
-I never made rapid ascents. I violated the ascent rate only twice coming out of caves.
-We had long surface intervals-about an hour to 90 minutes or more each time.
-I did stay hydrated during the dive days (although probably not enough) There were times when I should have drank more water.
-I stopped drinking water after my last dive and had my first alcoholic drink of the week. I didn't know at the time that I could still be at risk of DCS after my diving is done.
-One day the ocean was so rough that I did have to jump from the boat onto the pier, and I hurt my legs, but I could have hurt my arms as well.
So what I would like to know from you is...

-Do you think I could have been so crazy from the ear barotrauma that I made it all up in my mind?
-Have any of you had the DCS and then rationalized it afterward, telling yourself that it really didn't happen?
-Now my other arm hurts-is it possible for the bubbles to move even after 2 chamber rides when the arm didn't even hurt in the first place and its been 5 days since my last dive?
-I worry I may have a PFO. Is it common for people to get only 1 hit and not get hit again? My doctor says that if I have a hit again I should get checked for a PFO. Is my diving over?
-How do I regain my sanity? I am a teacher, and I need to go back to work. My ears still hurt a alot and I am dizzy(I am guessing from the barotrauma).
-Have any of you had the barotrauma, and what symptoms has it given you?
-Last, how many cases of DCS really are just sore muscles? Do you think I could have just hyperventilated and made it up?
Anyway, if any of you are still with me after this loooong post I still appreciate it. Thank you so much for your time.

 

[Dr Deco]

Hello luvspoodles:

Physical Stress

Curiously, of the things that you mention, only a couple would be mentioned in the classical research literature for the past sixty years as precipitating factors for DCS. That is, when research scientists wished to elicit DCS in their test subjects, they found only three things were really responsible. These were

• gas dose (dive exposure)
• ascent rate, and
• physical exercise.

While there were other factors, e.g., hydration, long dives, and moderate beverage alcohol consumption, these were a very distant second.

Divers will lift something heavy with their arm and not give a second thought to the nucleation characteristics of that activity. This type of activity is what is used in research studies to elicit DCS in test subjects! :sprite10:

Dr Deco :doctor:

 

[luvspoodles]

[

Divers will lift something heavy with their arm and not give a second thought to the nucleation characteristics of that activity. This type of activity is what is used in research studies to elicit DCS in test subjects! :sprite10:

[/font] Dr Deco :doctor:[/QUOTE]

Hi Dr. Deco,
What exactly do you mean by this?

 

[luvspoodles]

Yup.
That's why I said what I did.
Why did I mention I thought the diving was aggressive? Well, any one thing is probably not a big deal, but when combined in a diver riding the bars of her computer, no matter how warm the water, the factors add up to aggressive diving (IMHO):

We don't know what the time frame between the last dive and the first plane ride. We also don't know if the chamber ride relieved the symptoms. It doesn't seem likely this diver was bent, but it should also not automatically be ruled out.

That said, the point of my last post in response to wildcard was that I also didn't think this diver was having a heart attack

Hi Snowbear,
My last dive ended at about 1 pm on Friday and my first flight was at 3pm on Sunday. The pain in my arm started at around 9 pm on Sunday.