I take underwater artifacts...
- Thread starter OceanMist333
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Believe me if my wife ever says it's ok I will! Until then I value keeping the family "treasures"!
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OceanMist333
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I don't think 12 year olds can be certified Jim. I'd love to analyze your selection in labeling me "12," however, for the sake of being banned again I am not going to continue this thought or say what I truly feel about you.
As for the Thasamasar gentleman... you've threatened to ignore me multiple times now. Just do it. Save me from having to read another one of your generic responses. Instead of engaging the topic and getting into a friendly debate, you choose to, well as Jim would suggest, act like you're 12.
Riverdiver: I enjoyed reading your response since so many people out there apparently have a problem with me recovering stuff IIIII found. Let me take the time to reiterate, IIIIIII found. As to your questioning the pirate anchor. It's from the sea and so are pirates. Thus, it's a pirate anchor with a wooden shackle.
As for the Thasamasar gentleman... you've threatened to ignore me multiple times now. Just do it. Save me from having to read another one of your generic responses. Instead of engaging the topic and getting into a friendly debate, you choose to, well as Jim would suggest, act like you're 12.
Riverdiver: I enjoyed reading your response since so many people out there apparently have a problem with me recovering stuff IIIII found. Let me take the time to reiterate, IIIIIII found. As to your questioning the pirate anchor. It's from the sea and so are pirates. Thus, it's a pirate anchor with a wooden shackle.
When I lived up north we dove Great Lakes wrecks and dug through the debris field around wrecks and found china and loose artifacts. These were under 3"-1 foot of silt/mud. Other divers told us we should not remove anything from any wreck ever. Leave the china for no one to ever see was their belief. Once during a heated discussion I asked one of them what he would do if he was on a wreck and found a single gold coin. His response was "that's different."
There is a line that we all would cross. We all have to make that line for ourselves and live with the consequences. I will take what I find if it does not alter the wreck (loose china yes, pry a porthole off no) That is just me. Some will remove anything and some would remove something of value and turn it in to a museum. All are equally illegal under the law. I believe that you do what allows you to sleep at night but don't whine if you are caught and they throw the book at you.
I hate seeing a wreck disturbed but it happens every day due to currents, storms, natural deterioration, and anchors tearing a wreck apart. I knew a diver that I did not like at all that lifted a large anchor from a wreck and placed it in his yard. If I turned him in it would have given ammunition to those that wished to ban divers from all wrecks. I learned to appreciate the wreck without the anchor.
There is a line that we all would cross. We all have to make that line for ourselves and live with the consequences. I will take what I find if it does not alter the wreck (loose china yes, pry a porthole off no) That is just me. Some will remove anything and some would remove something of value and turn it in to a museum. All are equally illegal under the law. I believe that you do what allows you to sleep at night but don't whine if you are caught and they throw the book at you.
I hate seeing a wreck disturbed but it happens every day due to currents, storms, natural deterioration, and anchors tearing a wreck apart. I knew a diver that I did not like at all that lifted a large anchor from a wreck and placed it in his yard. If I turned him in it would have given ammunition to those that wished to ban divers from all wrecks. I learned to appreciate the wreck without the anchor.
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It's the one that Blackbeard wrote his name across before Henry Morgan stole it from him.
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OceanMist333
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Naui thanks for the post... at first I thought I was the only sane person on the board. Until I met yourself and riverdiver. All I'm saying is.. I've taken loose artifacts and they look nice on my mantle as opposed to gone foreever/buried. The ones that complain are the ones that can't find anything.
The minimum age for certification is 10 with most agencies and has been for a few years, obviously this is depending on the instructors discretion on whether the child is strong or mature enough to handle the sport. Just an update, not trying to be condescending
.Actually, this isn't always legal.
There are a couple of things to keep in mind
1) Ownership
This is closely related to the status of a wreck. A wreck that's been declared or defaulted to derelict can be picked clean at the diver's discretion.
However, not all wrecks are derelicts.
A ship has an owner, the cargo has an owner and the insurance companies (there may be more than one) have claim (salvage rights) on the ship and/or the cargo for a certain length of time after the wreck goes down. If you take something from a wreck while it is still in ownership of another party then youÃÓe effectively stealing. Depending on what you take the owner may not be amused.
Secondly, the ownership of wrecks may go through several stages but even if the owner of the ship and the insurance companies decide to write off their loss then the ownership of the wreck may default to the government. This is the case, for example, in Canada, where the government effectively claims ownership of all wrecks in her territorial waters. The government may decide to restrict diving on certain objects for various reasons which may also include restrictions on salvage taking. In the US I *suspect* but IÃÎ not sure, that this probably a matter thatÃÔ organised on the state level so before you salvage items a wreck you should look into the status of the wreck.
Finally, when you do find something of value (a treasure, for example), even if the wreck is derelict then the seedy side of people (and governments) will certainly surface and you may (and if the cargo is very valuable, almost certainly will) be sued by someone who will try to take it away from you, whether they have any proper legal claim to it or not. Items from some famous shipwrecks like the Titanic fall into this category, as do most expensive cargos such as cargos of gold the point being here, know what youÃÓe taking or risk getting more stress piled on you than itÃÔ worth.
2) special status
Some wrecks are given special status. War wrecks, for example, sometimes have the status of war-graves, which protects them from looting and may protect them from other activities as well. The British, for example, have declared all war ships as war-graves and while youÃÓe free to dive on them you are not permitted to salvage anything, remove human remains or photograph human remains.
A government may also declare a wreck off limits to diving for archaeological purposes. For example, if we suddenly discover NoahÃÔ Arc somewhere, IÃÎ sure we will not be permitted to dive on it. Other significant wrecks also have similar restrictions.
IÃÎ personally not against taking things if you have a right to them (most wrecks are just junk anyway) but I want to point that out because itÃÔ easy to say online that youÃÍl take whatever you darned well feel like taking (or to get the impression from a post like this that people are ok with this attitude). However, this attitude actually does more harm to the diving community than good. In some cases it takes a lot of time and effort to get the owners of wrecks to agree to let divers on them and it only takes one clown with a *me* *me* *me* attitude to ruin it for everyone.
R..
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